Why NO to full EU membership ?

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by old_bloke, Mar 28, 2008.

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  1. So Nicolas Sarkozy has popped over to schmooze the UK about how great France is going to be in the next few years.

    He has also
    .

    Now I for one live in the EU and don't see any real reason why the UK is not a full member, as by not being the UK PLC has lost a lot of benefits. Not just the millions of revenue from the last 3-month US dollar roller coaster.

    I know little about the EU' s workings in reality (OK some farmers in France/Germany/Italy - enter any country including the UK of course :D How much does HM the Queen make in set aside ?
    have ripped off the EU ( or so I have heard) as do the EMEP's and bla bla bla . The list goes on but what is the real reason behind the FEAR of becoming a full member state?

    Just wondering if there is a real reason behind it. i.e. UK PLC is stronger Financially/Economically/Militarily as a none member member or just the UKs Xenophobia.
     
  2. Why no to being a full member of the EU?
    My reasons are simple, I'm British. Not European, just British.
    Besides, Jhonny Foreigner is notriously untrustworthy, our own thieving, lying corrupt politicians are bad enough, why add more to get their nose in the trough that we fill at vast expense?
     
  3. As Jagman says, I'm British, I don't want to be European and be governed by a load of appointed commisioners over whom I have no control. I don't want to be part of an organisation that has not balanced the books for 13 years but blithely goes on wasting billions of pounds of taxpayers money with no accountability. An organisation ,in the main ,run by commisioners who failed as MPs in their own countries and were given these jobs . I was not against a Common Marker but I am totally against being a Citizen of the European Federation which is where we're being dragged with lies and deceit. Our politicians see nothing wrong with all the corruption and ineffeiciency because that's away of life for them, but I do.
     
  4. No, because, we are British.

    As such we should be able to rule ourselves not allow a bunch of foreigners make descisions for us.

    Europe is to large to run on a one size fits all. Even in America they have State laws and Federal.
     
  5. Nobody is asking you to give up being British. The way I see it being British isn't about what is written on my passport. I know I'm British myself and I believe that to be the most important thing.

    The UK is definitely losing out from not adopting the EURO. I often hear people on arrse complaining because Britain doesn't manufacture anymore, and the reason for this is the pound. During the days of empire Britain was called the "workshop of the world" because we were part of the Sterling block, which at the time was the biggest trading block in the world. Of course WW2 and bretton woods took care of that. The UK currency now floats freely on the world money markets, and because the profit margins in manufacturing are usually quite slim, this makes it very hard for companies to accurately forecast profits if they want to make something in the UK and export it (because they can't predict the exchange rates 6 months down the line).

    If the UK was to adopt the EURO it would provide us with an entire continents worth of people to sell to, and manufacturing would once again return to the UK. The position we are in now where we are half in half out of Europe can't last and we need to make a final decision soon if we are in or out. The only other viable alternative I can think of is to have a political union with the Commonwealth, which is my preferred choice to the EU because we have much more in common with them, but I'm afraid there doesn't seem to be much political support in any of the Commonwealth countries for this.
     
  6. Sorry daviroo I completely dsagree.
    Manufacturing has gone down the pan in Britain for many reasons but most of them were long before the introduction of the Euro.
    Even if we went woth the Euro this country it far to expensive a proposition to manufacture anything much (Gordon has seen to that)

    As far as I am concerned we would be better ditching the EU completely but as other posters have pointed out our politicians will never allow that, its too much in their self serving interests. Its a nice lucrative home for the Mandelson's of this world.

    Mutually beneficial trading system (ie the Common Market) may be a good thing, but political intervention from foreigners in my country? no fecking thankyou.
    Our own politicians do precious little to represent what I want in my country, I can't see German or Fench politicians serving my interests any better.
     
  7. Both Switzerland and Norway seem to manage just fine without being members of the EU, I'm sure we could too, Its just another gravy train for politicians.
    The Euro was sold to the masses on the fact that if you started with 100 quid and visited every country in the EU you would end up with less than a tenner just through conversion rates, carefully forgetting that you lose the right to stablelise your own countries monetary system. Think the rest of Europe would care if we needed to lower or raise the interest rate to help our economy?
    The Germans soon regretted the Euro when it took over the mark. I think it was something like 60% wanted the mark back within the first 6 months. The Italian goverment were also talking about leaving it.
     
  8. The British pound has a lot to do with the decline in manufacturing. As I already explained the UK was able to manufacture so much before WW2 because of the empire and the sterling area. We had a closed system where by we could trade with our empire countries but other countries couldn't. When you can export to a bigger population you create an economy of scale, because the higher number of goods you produce the cheaper they become per unit. Now lets just say for example that Jaguar wants to manufacture cars and sell to Europe, they decide to build 5000 cars because the EURO/STERLING exchange rate is doing well at the moment, it takes them 6 months to build all the cars and by this time the pound has either strengthened or the EURO has weakened, which has made their cars harder to sell in Europe so they make a loss. If Britain adopted the EURO we wouldn't have this problem and in my opinion it would make it easier to revive our manufacturing industry.
     
  9. But if its the other way around we would sell even more so thats not much of an argument.
    If we adopted the euro and sold outside of the EU we would have the same problems
     
  10. Grownup_Rafbrat

    Grownup_Rafbrat LE Good Egg (charities)

    For me it's these things:
    Lack of audited accounts
    Decisions being made by unelected 'commissioners' who know nothing about the topic on which they're deciding
    'One size fits all' rules rather than rules appropriate for places (who the heck NEEDS 45-tonne waggons in tiny village streets?)
    Lack of evenness in implementing rules
    The moving parliament - what a waste of money
    Sovereignty (my father's comment in 1973 still holds 'Ve haf failed to conquer zem in war, now ve haf annexed zem in peace')
    Paying taxes to build roads in Spain / Greece / the Balkans. What have the Balkans ever done for us?
    The European Identity Project
    Loss of control of our armed forces, which should be there for the Defence of this Realm, not some Euro-Super-State.

    There's probably more, but that will do for the main points.

    I'd be happy with a Common Market, but DO NOT want to be part of the United States of Europe, thank you.
     
  11. True it could go either way, but why are companies going to take a gamble like that when they can have assured profits by simply manufacturing it inside the Eurozone? Companies do take risks but not unnecessary ones.

    True also, but we would create an economy of scale so British goods would be cheaper, which would at least put us on par with everybody else in the Eurozone, where as right now we are at a disadvantage.
     
  12. Slivo and cheap teenage prostitutes?

    For me, I don't see that we would stop being ourselves through being part of a European political entity. The Germans are no less German for it, nor the French, French (unfortunately). The Italians are still in their accustomed state of barely-restrained anarchy and the Greeks still filthy and idle with a taste for man-love.

    The structures of the EU are what repel me. It's neither fish nor fowl at the moment, neither purely a trading block nor a fully-fledged government and that's where the problems creep in: unaccountability; the democratic deficit; nepotism and corruption; simply trying to be all things to all men and failing at most. If it actually worked, I might be more easily swayed.

    Having said all that, the future isn't too bright in my view for a lonely little island in the North Atlantic if we try to go it alone. The future belongs to entities with large, homogeneous internal markets and surplus capacity for export. That's what made the US such a powerful player and that's how the rules work. We won't ever get the Empire back and we need to face the realities of what that means if we're not to become merely The World's Largest Historical Theme Park for the short while before the Arabs, Chinese or Disney build a bigger one elsewhere.
     
  13. I think it is quite simple, we have so much of a problem with our own Parliament (Sleeze, accountability, voting their own way instead of the way their constituants want etc, and alot more). The EU accounts have not been signed off for how many years?, it is so corrupt (MEPs) it makes our MPs look like saints.
    We stick to the rules and get Fukced over if we (UK) break a rule when all the other EU members choose what rule to follow and if they dont like it they just do what they want and nothing is done.

    I get really fed up with the EU crap that is sold to us. The vast majority of this country (the normal people) do not want to be ruled by someone from another country who has no interest in anything but themselves or their own counrty and what perks, back handers that they can get themselves.

    Rant over but this subject will never go away until we pull out of the EU.

    God save the Queen, not some EU president
     
  14. Norway only refused EU membership because of it's plentiful reserves of oil and fish, both of which would have to be shared.

    Switzerland is similar. Membership of the EU would require a transparent banking system which they are not willing to divulge due to ethical reasons and it is their biggest source of income.

    UK on the other hand does three times more business with the EU than the US yet we align ourselves more closely to them in matters of trade.

    Mystifying. We have raped the EU for long enough but taking more than we give and eventually it will stop.

    I believe in the EU and it will only grow from strength to strength. Trading blocs are the future and soon the EU will be one of only three that can challenge the future dominance of China.

    Closer links equals more parity but better future.
     
  15. Personally, I think Britain should reinstate former closer ties with Commonwealth of Nations. But is it possible?
    Right now UK's internal matters are governed by EU, while its foreign policies are dictated by US. This creates a situation of one trying to sit in between two chairs: not comfortable and a bit dangerous.
    One thing is certain: UK can not exist by itself and sooner or later it'll have to make a choice.