WHY MUST WE GO SKI TOURING TO JUSTIFY ALPINE SKIING?

Discussion in 'Sports, Adventure Training and Events' started by Outstanding, Jan 31, 2006.

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  1. Truth is we shouldn't have to but some clever PT sort thinbks that Alpine skiing isnt tough enough without the addedc pain of walking uphil on skis. Small minded sadists.
     
  2. Nowt to do with PTI's, I'm afraid it's all down to LAND training budgets, they'll only fund an exercise if A. Theres training value and b. Theres a military element to it. Unfortuantly as much as I enjoy a bit of Alpine myself, a few snow plow turns dont cut the mustard. Where as blowing out ya hoop and digging snow holes does.
     
  3. The trouble is that what you actually do is piss off the poor guys who have been told to attend and that they will get taught to ski nad enjoy themselves. Funding isnt the issue so much as the incessant need to make things a pain in the ares. Actually "they" claim that Skiing is not adventurous enough. Right, well thats crap too.
     
  4. Thats not what is said here http://www.army.mod.uk/sportandadventure/adventurous/activities.htm

    The shake up in the ski quals TL etc has long been overdue and ski touring will enhance the skills of any soldiers that find themselves deployed in colder climates and not AW trained.

    Hmm told to attend, I bet there are plenty of regular serving soldiers out there who would really enjoy any skiing course, sadly its rarely these types that attend.

    Think yourself lucky "Outstanding" to do some adventure training.........
     
  5. I fully agree that not enough guys get the chance to go, what wazzes me off is that those who do are then suprised to find themselves walking uphill. If we cut that Phase out altogether we might get more people enjoying learning a new skill and being well plcaed to make the decision to go Touring.

    You are too good a man to need to justify Army policy.
     
  6. Top tip: Buy a chair lift pass.
     
  7. Maybe they should read the small print on the joining instructions.

    Or a heads up in JSP 419?

    Or are you from this mob......... http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=6215.html
     
  8. Never had a drama with the winter skiing package myself. I enjoy the challenge of going up as much as down, spending nights on the mountain and digging snow holes.

    Adventure training does what it says on the tin. Provides ADVENTURE and TRAINING if it doesn't then it isn't adventure training.
     
  9. problem comes that skiing falls between 2 stools and consequently 2 budgets. Go ski touring or do training orientated that way, on AT budget. Go fast down hill (on or off piste) and you're only a bib number away from a sport- different budget.

    sport is not adventurous training and never will be. The issue has come around because in the past too many people abused ski training for fun and for free. The army doesn't fund mountain biking and white water rafting either, the system selected 8 activities and set barriers that had to be met before a very generous wedge of money is given.

    Doesn't matter either way, alot should be expected of participants, be it sport or Adv Trg, its not ski val, panorama or thompson. If a unit wants to set a ski trip up as R&R, then unless it is prepared for all its boys to pay a good personal contribution, it has to screw the nut to get green dosh.

    Anyway, outstanding, it sounds like you might have a bad case of sour grapes somewhere along the line. Did you get failed off a TLT, but just want a JSSI(A) for on piste stuff? or have you had some bad feedback from a PTI?
     
  10. Dont open that can of worms for at least another 10 to 20 years......

    Going off at a tangent its bizzare that mountain biking isnt recognised by the Army, yet bikes are provided to some AYT's and CTT's by Div funding and other sources. Its also allowed as an "Extra" AT activity at the CO's discretion/written authority unit cost if supervised by a competent person.

    Consequently because its not recognised courses for Instructors arent run (ridden?) by the Army.

    Equation Instructor supervising mountain biking group with a Mlt/ML + First Aid ticket and a verbal"Yes Colonel Sgt "Jim Queen" has ridden a bike before and dosnt need stabilisers"..... result accident and Lait enquiry. (Quite a few of them!)

    So the RAF in there wisdom have identified a scheme and governing body for Mountain Biking, and have providers to deliver the courses at there centres but only for RAF personnel.

    Maybe the Army will follow suite when the old men at the zoo with there breeches, belts and brace's have done one

    Sadly not, but just do as Im told.......
     
  11. Incidently, as a future member keen to do lots of adventure training (stop laughing at the back) - what exactly is army ski touring?

    Is ski-touring going around on those almost horizontal groomed tracks in the valleys using long, slim cross country skis? Or is it going up into the mountains using carving skis but with a heel-lifting binding and skins on the bottom of the skis? If its the latter then do you cover a lot of mountaineering topics too - avalanche forcasting, use of an ice axe, crossing glaciers etc?

    Cheers,
    Tricam.
     
  12. As you may know the famous adventure training activity sailing, not to be confused with the International and Olympic Sport of sailing is a recognised Adenturous Training activity. Alpine skiing, requiring fitness, considerable nerve whilst developing individual confidence all of which can be enjoyed in enjoyable (ie not soaking wet) surroundings fails to qualify as such. Oh and anyone who doesn't think alpine skiing is adventurous enough is invited to stand at the top pf a black run - and then ski down it. I'll show you adventure!!
     
  13. You want to try it on skinny planks or for even more "Adventure" on a Grolsch crate..... after supping all the bottles 8O
     
  14. proves my point
     
  15. not really. Sailing qualifications are essentially civilian ones governed by the RYA and their rules. Yes sailing does have races, however since there is not much difference in between a race at cowes and the sydney hobart (which got cheeky a few years back with a big storm IIRC) bar distance, duration and location, sailing has that necessary adventure inherent and possible. The skills learnt at lower levels can take you across the atlantic as competent crew.

    Downhill skiing cannot exist without a commercial infrastructure. ski lifts cost and while I'm sure people do have a lot of very personal challenges at the top of a black (as I'm sure people get at the top of an artificial slope), it is not transferable unless you tour. Try do the haute route without touring skills. try and do a level 3 skiing exped without touring.

    Ultimately downhill skiing is within a controlled contrived artificial environment. Touring brings freedom and is often dismissed by those too lazy to try it or those not willing to take the challenge in their stride. Quite simply, if one can't hack the small challenge of a TLT course on the way to get a JSSI(A), don't apply.

    It does seem though that you have an axe to grind with the AT scheme as it applys to skiing. anything you would like to share with us?