WHY IS GETTING A COMISSION IN THE CCF AND ACF DIFFERENT?

#1
Why is being commissioned in the CCF so much easier compared to the commissioning process in the ACF which is 100 times difficult? With both the CCF and the ACF, both are both class B commissions but if a CCF officer who's face fits the bill is put forward, then it's a trip to Brigade, a 20 minute chat and bobs yer uncle! Despite no prior experience of any sort he or she is then a rupert. Sureley this is unfair to the ACF and makes a complete mockery of the commissioning process. Perhaps this is why no one has much respect for CCF officers? I realise that somewhere there will be the exception and one or two CCF officers may be quite good at what they do. However, being a teacher simply does not justify an automatic commission. This situation is so bad that I would estimate that if CCF officers were required to pursue the same commissioning course as the ACF, then 85% of these CCF officers would not pass the board.
 
#2
Could it be that as the CCF is a school based organisation then the "home grown" instructors are preferable thus the teachers are going to make the most sutible officers? The ACF has a much wider range and probably a much wider "ability range" with its cadets, thus need to have more scrutiny of who is best to set the example for the kids. At the end of the day, the Commissioning course is to ensure that the officers don't feck it up for the cadets. Its not liek a real commision is it. And also, all these guys are volenteers, not serving!
 
#3
Oh for pity's sake! "My B Group Commission is better than your B Group commission!"

This type of attitude indicates the sort of people who shouldn't be a)commissioned and b)given charge of the military education of young people. How on earth can you make a bald statement that 85% of CCF officers would not pass an ACF board?? 93% of former ACF instructors walk with a limp. I don't know if that's true or not but if I say it authoritatively enough then people will have to obey me and kow-tow.

Pathetic, the only good thing is that my blood pressure seems to be normal during this rant - which bodes well for my check up with the specialist tomorrow.

Play nicely with each other or don't play at all...
 
#4
Oneshot, you didn't play Inspector crabtree on allo allo did you?????? Spellcheck before submit.............. my god your not a teechur arr yoo??
 
#5
I was chatting to a CCF instructor about this last week & the general consensus is that as the majority of them are professionally qualified (as teachers) they don't do a commissioning board but instead have interviews much like the old system of commissioning older ACF officers. If you compare this to ACF instructors whose jobs and qualification levels vary widely, it follows in a similar vein to the regular army. A lot of CCF officers would like to do a commissioning board though apparently.
 
#6
Thankyou everyone for your comments, though I am still none the wiser! I think it is wrong that just because you are a teacher then it is considered that you will automatically make a good officer. That is class ridden and unfair. (Oh my god, I hope I dont sound like a lefty!!!!) In my humble opinion a commission should be given to someone based on their personal ability not whether they have a degree or not. Both the CCF and the ACF answer to Brigade, though the ACF have more autonomy having 'County' structure. So, then this leads onto another question. Why cant the CCF enlist AI's then? I realise their cadet training is carried out by the CTT but I am pretty convinced that if given the chance then many a CCF would like to be given the chance to enlist ex regs etc who are not suited to a commission but would make great AI's.





I asked this gay chappie whether he had ever had a pet. He replied no, but I have had a cockatoo!
 
#7
But look at the reasoning behind the CCF and the ACF. The ACF is an open youth based organisation and the CCF is a school based organisation! Thus they have two different requrements. At the end of the day, you can't think of the officers in either organisation as an Army officer, the training isn't the same nor is the recruiting criteria. Again by the same token, just because your ex military doe not mean your any good to the ACF or CCF as there are different qualities required due to the different roles.
 
#8
two-four-albert said:
Oneshot, you didn't play Inspector crabtree on allo allo did you?????? Spellcheck before submit.............. my god your not a teechur arr yoo??
My apologies, yes my spelling leaves something to be desired, but I could be petty and point out that Crabtree is a name (as is Allo Allo) and thus requires a capital letter, but I wouldn't do such a thing as I think if all you can post is someones spelling and grammar error then you obviously have bugger all useful to say and shouldn't waste the time and energy in typing it!
 
#9
Oneshot said:
But look at the reasoning behind the CCF and the ACF. The ACF is an open youth based organisation and the CCF is a school based organisation! Thus they have two different requrements. At the end of the day, you can't think of the officers in either organisation as an Army officer, the training isn't the same nor is the recruiting criteria. Again by the same token, just because your ex military doe not mean your any good to the ACF or CCF as there are different qualities required due to the different roles.
Take to one side the fact that the officers in both the ACF and the CCF are not real British army officers. However, there is very little difference between the army section of the CCF and say an ACF closed detachment or even a normal detachment of the ACF. Both work to to the sylabus. both have a star system with idenical training. Both the AI's and officers go to Frimley. It's the ease at which a CCF officer can gain a commision which is the issue here.
 
#10
wo1slashedpeak said:
Both work to to the sylabus. both have a star system with idenical training.
The training is not the same! I am stuck in a compulsory CCF which promotes on how long you've been in, not how good you are. We have about 200 cadets (95% of which don't want to be there or learn). For these we've got 8 officers (all teachers at the school who I have little respect for as they know nothing about the military subjects).

1 ex-RLC WO2 who acts as training officer and if we lucky occasionally someone from CTT comes in. I've done 3 years there during which been on exercise twice, never learnt about LSWs, haven't even been taught the about turn at the march. However still a corporal (if I do another year I could be a sergeant (ooh wow)).


However. since i want an army career I joined the ACF. Within a year I had already learnt and done more than I will ever do in CCF. I got my 2nd stripe after the 2nd year and am now way ahead in terms of knowledge, experience and ability than anyone in my CCF unit (unfortunately CCF aren't willing to transfer any qualifications).

Just an excuse for a rant I know but nonetheless why is there so much funding for CCF compared to ACF, but CCF still cannot produce the same standard of cadet as ACF
 
#11
Right - let us get one thing straight here!

A Queens commision is exactly that - the Queens commision.

What is all the debate about?

They hold the commision, are entitled to respects paid (as it is the commision that warrants the salute etc.).

I pay ACF, CCF and ATC officers compliments, it's military manners and is governed in Queens regs!

A group B commission is a commission and there, that's that!

Now, be good and play with your spell checkers!

Oh, btw, I'm not commissioned and I am a regular soldier and have been since 1991.... so start biting and I'll bite back!
 
#12
me n bee, let me congratulate you on behalf of the ACF and CCF personnel on arrse, you are a rare breed indeed my friend, a serving regular army soldier who has not referred to us as " a bunch of walts".
 
#14
I was admittedly shocked when I realised that CCF officers can get their pips up without going to Frimley. However......

1) A decent CCF will put it's officers through Frimley by the end of their first year (and given the time Army paperwork takes, the two can coincide).

2) CCF's are crying out for female cover, and if their vanity needs to be played to a little then give them the pips straight away. Next year my Section's training will be heavily curtailed (including some male-only exercises) and I would do anything to get a woman, as it were......... More generally teachers have enough on their plates, and they don't want the feck around factor which as we know is endemic in the system.

3) A lot, though of course by no means all CCF officers have at least OTC experience.

4) No one expects a CCF officer to be able to lead men on operations, they are expected to teach a syllabus, something they are trained to do. Also they have proved themselves responsible to and capable of looking after 30 plus kids.

5) As with all things, as long as the CCF candidates are suitable then what does it matter?

Of course, the system is totally class-based and unfair to our ACF bretheren. However, when all is said and done a Group B commission is a Group B commission, and if the person is unsuitable they will still be found out, no one will die. As long as senior officers in detachment mentor them properly the system does work, as their is the school discipline system to back it up (for keeping the teachers in line). Personally I have great respect for both CCF and ACF officers, as they give a lot to the kids (although admittedly CCF officers get a better deal). I have a great deal of respect for the new CCF officer at my school. He has thrown himslef into it whole-heartedly and is worthy of a commission. If I had not arrived at the school he would be in command of the section and would just have to crack on with it, and he would have done so. THe point being in a CCF that can happen with a brand new officer, in the ACF I don't see how it would work.
 
#15
Well, it had to be said, didn't it?!
 
#16
me n bee.

A very refreshing attitude, for arrse.

I have generally found CTTs very good when it comes to dealing with CCF officers (despite one nutter who I have to put up with), but then having a group A commission I might not get the full benefit of attitude. Interestingly I was recently on 145 bdes CCF Central Camp. I'm not sure which CTTs were there (I think it was 14 and 15) but their attitude to kids and staff was excellent. At the command conference thing one CCF captain did complain about the attitude of some DS towards CCF officers, however I had no problems. Also his complaint was that reg staff were at times treating CCF officers as if they knew nothing. Personally this attitude makes sense due to the range of expertise. The point being that it was done within the context of normal officer-man relationships. To me it was if NCOs were explaining things to officers of other services, ie, with deference but expecting a knowledge gap.

Oh, and the camp itself was excellent.
 
#17
barbarasson said:
me n bee.

A very refreshing attitude, for arrse.

I have generally found CTTs very good when it comes to dealing with CCF officers (despite one nutter who I have to put up with), but then having a group A commission I might not get the full benefit of attitude. Interestingly I was recently on 145 bdes CCF Central Camp. I'm not sure which CTTs were there (I think it was 14 and 15) but their attitude to kids and staff was excellent. At the command conference thing one CCF captain did complain about the attitude of some DS towards CCF officers, however I had no problems. Also his complaint was that reg staff were at times treating CCF officers as if they knew nothing. Personally this attitude makes sense due to the range of expertise. The point being that it was done within the context of normal officer-man relationships. To me it was if NCOs were explaining things to officers of other services, ie, with deference but expecting a knowledge gap.

Oh, and the camp itself was excellent.
Think we may have met at 145 Bde CCF Central Camp, ????

By the way, the CTTs at the camp were 13 and 14 (from 49 Brigade), 16 and 17 (from 145 briagde) and elements of 6 (from London District)
 
#18
oc14 said:
Think we may have met at 145 Bde CCF Central Camp, are you badged Staffords/RA by any chance ????

By the way, the CTTs at the camp were 13 and 14 (from 49 Brigade), 16 and 17 (from 145 briagde) and elements of 6 (from London District)
Was this camp at Wathgill by any chance?
 
#20
Not all CCF officers are teachers!
My unit has four (including myself) who have no connection with the school. One of these doubles as ACF and CCF.

CTT personnel do occasionally assist with the training, but at my contingent we haven't seen one for months. The cadet NCOs do the instructing, overseen by the staff.

Honest opinion of out unit's staff (as an outsider with no connection with the school)? All but one of the officers are actually very good. One is a waster but is kept on for female cover purposes.
 

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