Why I wont be having an ID card

I certainly won't be carrying one, regardless of the sanctions imposed. If enough people refuse, in a mass act of civil disobedience, then the system will fail.


Ministers plan to sell your ID card details to raise cash
By Francis Elliott, Andy McSmith and Sophie Goodchild
26 June 2005

Personal details of all 44 million adults living in Britain could be sold to private companies as part of government attempts to arrest spiralling costs for the new national identity card scheme, set to get the go-ahead this week.

The Independent on Sunday can today reveal that ministers have opened talks with private firms to pass on personal details of UK citizens for an initial cost of £750 each.

Amid warnings today that the cost of a card for each adult in Britain is likely to double to £200, union leaders predicted that millions of public-sector workers could refuse to co-operate with the scheme, prompting claims that the ID scheme will become Labour's equivalent of the poll tax.

Unison is the latest and biggest trade union to come out against the controversial government plans. The Transport and General Workers' Union and the GMB have already urged backbenchers to vote against the Identity Cards Bill next week. Unison said that ID cards would be ineffective against terrorism and that its 1.3 million members working in healthcare may have the right to refuse to co-operate in enforcing their use.

Bob Marshall-Andrews, one of the Labour MPs opposing the Bill, has accused the Government of doing a "back of an envelope" calculation to reach its figure.

The opening of commercial talks contradicts a promise made when the Home Office launched a public consultation on ID cards in April last year, when officials pledged that "unlike electoral registers, the National Identity Register will not be open for any general access or inspection."

Public support for the scheme has been falling away in recent months amid gathering fears over costs. A report by the London School of Economics is to show that the card's cost to individuals will be around £200.

In addition, firms could be charged up to £750 for technology that would allow them instantly to verify customers' identity through iris scanning or finger-printing, according to official documents.

Whitehall insiders, who have already been passed a copy of the LSE report, say it also includes a warning by a former Nato security chief that the cards could be a "security disaster", are "too risky" to introduce, and could lead to a national meltdown in the event of a security breach of the central database.

After 2008, a machine similar to credit card readers will be a common sight on the counters of banks and large retail stores. These new machines will potentially be able to read a customer's biometric details, such as fingerprints and facial measurements, to check that they tally with information on the customer's ID card.

The Identity Cards Bill has a rough passage ahead, with Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and some Labour rebels joining forces against it. Although government whips are confident of winning Tuesday's vote, rebels are predicting that they can kill the measure off later in the process, in a slow war of attrition, on the grounds of the costs involved and the risks of computer failure.
Aye, but it ain't going to happen. Even t' Unions aren't going to have it: T' Grauniad.

And in one of the more laughably transparent made-up quotes from this corner of the Press; "One source close to Clarke said: 'We accept that if it is going to be a massively expensive scheme that won't work, we won't bring it in.' "
Does anyone happen to know if we (i.e. the serving members of HMF) will need one of these new-fangled ID cards, given that our ID cards are proof of identity already?

Can we expect a 'Forces Only' version to come out? Or will we start having to carry enormous suitcases around with us wherever we go, stuffed to bursting with various means of establishing 'who we are'?
What's the point in having id cards if they're going to sell our personnel details to companies? Sigh.....
Sod this, i get enough spam through not only the snail mail, but also via email, and even though my phone number is x directory, i still get phone calls from company's doing surveys! Last one who rang me got a right gob full of abuse from me.

Why oh why should personal details be sold off, be given to the Yanks coz they asked for it, etc... i might as well put all my details on the net including my credit card numbers and just say help yourselves,

if you want to make it law to have a ID card i want it so my details are secure, or you can poke it, i refuse to get one!
The point is to identify you......
Why should I need to be identified?

I can be invited to accompany the police for questioning, with the right to leave at any time. I can be arrested on suspicion of committing an offence and detained for questioning. I can be detained for extended periods if permission is granted, or charged and either released on bail or remanded in custody. How will access to biometric data make this process easier?

It is likely that the card is aimed at the 5% (a guess) who are serious criminals or suspected terrorists. These 5% will probably circumvent the process in any case, through policing failures (such as the murderer who was released because there was no interpeter), through fraudulent cards or identities or exploitation of system failures, or through corruption (the Customs officer sent down for running a drugs ring).

Why should 95% of the population suffer under an unwieldy and intrusive system that will see their personal details shared with the commercial sector in an attempt to cut costs. What happens if the system failures lead to innocent people being persecuted? Even a rate of 1% would criminalise over half-a-million people. The pensioner Derek Bond was locked up for 3 weeks at the behest of the FBI, who got the wrong man.

I won't be co-operating with this ludicrous system and if enough of us defy the scheme (and any fines imposed) and tie up the process in legal challenges, it will be rendered unworkable. The police and home office should be catching real criminals, not intruding upon the lives of 95% of Brits.
I was answering the very direct question posed by tsar_nikolas, "whats the point of id cards if they are going to sell the data" - how can selling the data make the card pointless.

I do not agree with the cards and fully appreciate what you are saying. crack on.

Assuming this goes through, what comes next?

Star of David sewn on peoples jackets? Or a Crescent for our Muslims? Or how about we introduce HM State Security Police?

It's all just a VERY gradual dimunition of our way of life, to be reduced into some sort of mulch type ersatz uber-PC nanny state. That CNUT Bliar wants to reshape this nation into his own image.

What a shame John Smith passed on - he had the credibility, dignity and integrity this nepotistic Chav tosser, who we had the lack of foresight to vote in, lacks in abundance.
MrPVRd said:
It is likely that the card is aimed at the 5% (a guess) who are serious criminals or suspected terrorists.
And a fat lot of good it'll do. The Madrid bombers had legitimate ID cards. Every criminal with more than two brain cells will use the system, not be cowed by it.
I'll grudgingly accept one if given one, but I'll refuse to pay a penny for it
I walked 500m down the road yesterday to buy some milk and a paper. I took some money but not a wallet, hence I would have forgotten my ID card if we had them. If they come in then I would have been committing an offence. There would be no excuse, no mitigation - I would be out of my house without a card. If a policeman or some new ersatz New Labour crime fighting operative asked me for my ID then I can be prosecuted. That is wrong. If freedom means anything it lets me wander down the shops with a fiver and nothing else without criminalising me.

And don't give me that "they won't prosecute" nonsense - I've committed an absolute offence, all it takes is one idiot with an arrest target to meet and I'm charged. With no defence because of the nature of the offence. This is wrong, and I won't be having one.
I'll grudgingly accept one if given one, but I'll refuse to pay a penny for it
Eh... Regardless of whether or not you pay at source, i.e. pay an "ID Card bill", you as a taxpayer will pay for it. Only question is which bill it goes on.

So...just to reiterate I shan't be having one :D
Put me down for not having one too.
I have to agree with you chaps. I resent the idea of having to carry the damned thing around with me. I rarely leave the house without my wallet with all it's attendant cards, driving licence, etc. so why do I need yet another piece of dross in there?

I also resent the idea of paying for it at the point of issue. I pay my (extortionate) taxes so I think I've already paid & will not be paying again!


Book Reviewer
MiB will not pay and will not carry one.

By the way, are you aware that the MoD 90 and other MoD ID cards are not recognised by HM Government as proof of identity?

Try buying a new number plate for your car and producing a MOD90 as proof of identity.
If its a recognised form of ID then fair enough, I`ll apply and carry one but fecked if I`m paying for one. If its compulsory it should be free 8O
Couldn't agree more with the general sentiment of this topic. Another little liberty gone.

Point: if they sell the info they have gathered for the purpose of a national ID card scheme, they can only use it for that purpose. We could prosecute the government under the Data Protection Act. 8)
maninblack said:
By the way, are you aware that the MoD 90 and other MoD ID cards are not recognised by HM Government as proof of identity?

Try buying a new number plate for your car and producing a MOD90 as proof of identity.
Also, try using one as photo proof of identity for an internal flight within England!!!!


Edited to say, i will not be paying for one either. Well, i say one, but i would have to buy for my son and wife as well. So they expect me to have a spare 600 quid available just in case the government decide to force us to pay for cards? Not this bloody call sign. I'll carry it if its free, but not if i have to pay.

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