Why dont the Germans acknowledge November 11th?

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#1
I was discussing this with a mixed group today, including a couple of Hermans. Nobody could identify a reason why Germany should not acknowledge November 11th in some way - especially as a nation that paid such a high price in the last century.
A French lady offered that something of a recognition in Germany would be a more concrete thing than the symbolic EU parliment week in Strasbourg (which is soon to get binned it seems). I thought this was a good point.
It seems the disconnection between soldiering (without choice) and the politics of the time is rather selective in the German psychology....

Any thoughts?
 
#2
Alsacien said:
I was discussing this with a mixed group today, including a couple of Hermans. Nobody could identify a reason why Germany should not acknowledge November 11th in some way - especially as a nation that paid such a high price in the last century.
A French lady offered that something of a recognition in Germany would be a more concrete thing than the symbolic EU parliment week in Strasbourg (which is soon to get binned it seems). I thought this was a good point.
It seems the disconnection between soldiering (without choice) and the politics of the time is rather selective in the German psychology....

Any thoughts?
They lost


Its the same for their cemetries they are hard to find and not as well kept
 
#3
I'm surprised that the Septics don't embrace the poppy either, affiliated in some way to the Haig fund.
 
#4
Alsacien said:
I was discussing this with a mixed group today, including a couple of Hermans. Nobody could identify a reason why Germany should not acknowledge November 11th in some way - especially as a nation that paid such a high price in the last century.
A French lady offered that something of a recognition in Germany would be a more concrete thing than the symbolic EU parliment week in Strasbourg (which is soon to get binned it seems). I thought this was a good point.
It seems the disconnection between soldiering (without choice) and the politics of the time is rather selective in the German psychology....

Any thoughts?
Very much agreed - the ordinary German soldier served with as much honour as any other. Suspect the inflicted German psych of today may not like it though.
 
#5
easesprings said:
Alsacien said:
I was discussing this with a mixed group today, including a couple of Hermans. Nobody could identify a reason why Germany should not acknowledge November 11th in some way - especially as a nation that paid such a high price in the last century.
A French lady offered that something of a recognition in Germany would be a more concrete thing than the symbolic EU parliment week in Strasbourg (which is soon to get binned it seems). I thought this was a good point.
It seems the disconnection between soldiering (without choice) and the politics of the time is rather selective in the German psychology....

Any thoughts?
They lost


Its the same for their cemetries they are hard to find and not as well kept
Not my experience in France, they are as well-kept as any other. Maybe in the home-country.
 
#6
1/
The Germans do remember their war dead, but in their own way which is different from ours. The way that they do id differs from place to place, there is no national standard.

2/
German war graves are hard to find because they are few and far between - The germans tended to ship the remains home for burial rather than have 'foreign fields'

3/
I came across, quite by accident, a little WW1 cemetery on Luneberg heath some years ago - It was well maintained and obviously looked after locally. I took the time to stand silently and respectfully for a while.

4/
Remember please that soldiers are soldiers, whatever their flag or nation. The common German soldier did exactly what ours did - They fought for their country.
 
#7
Ulster_Rifleman said:
1/
The Germans do remember their war dead, but in their own way which is different from ours. The way that they do id differs from place to place, there is no national standard.

2/
German war graves are hard to find because they are few and far between - The germans tended to ship the remains home for burial rather than have 'foreign fields'

3/
I came across, quite by accident, a little WW1 cemetery on Luneberg heath some years ago - It was well maintained and obviously looked after locally. I took the time to stand silently and respectfully for a while.

I too have visited German Cemetries around Ypres, they are well maintained but "different" in that there is less light let in making them darker. Regardless RIP all.



4/
Remember please that soldiers are soldiers, whatever their flag or nation. The common German soldier did exactly what ours did - They fought for their country.
 
#8
Ulster_Rifleman said:
1/
The Germans do remember their war dead, but in their own way which is different from ours. The way that they do id differs from place to place, there is no national standard.

2/
German war graves are hard to find because they are few and far between - The germans tended to ship the remains home for burial rather than have 'foreign fields'

3/
I came across, quite by accident, a little WW1 cemetery on Luneberg heath some years ago - It was well maintained and obviously looked after locally. I took the time to stand silently and respectfully for a while.

4/
Remember please that soldiers are soldiers, whatever their flag or nation. The common German soldier did exactly what ours did - They fought for their country.
Sorry, mong post before.

I too have visited German cemetries around Ypres and they are very well maintained - just different. More enclosed so less light and a darker atmostphere.

Regardless RIP ALL.
 

seaweed

LE
Book Reviewer
#9
Please let's recognise the enormous moral gulf between fighting for freedom, justice, democracy and the rule of law on the one hand; and fighting to plunge the whole of the world into a Nazi dictatorship on the other. That, and the evil litany of German war crimes everywhere they went, completely negate any concept of 'honour' for German soldiers. I'm just amazed the French don't plough up their German cemeteries. A German National Day of Shame on November 11th would be the least they owe the world.
 
#10
It will have something to do with the start of the Fifth Season being on exactly the same day. This predates the 1st World War by quite a few years and continues upto Ash Wednesday.

I think it would be quite difficult for any country, to hold both a celibration and a memorial service on the same day, without getting bad press - especially Germany.
 
#11
[/quote]

Very much agreed - the ordinary German soldier served with as much honour as any other. Suspect the inflicted German psych of today may not like it though.[/quote]

Well apart from those who took part in war crimes .Not just an SS gestapo past time .
In the WW1 the germans treated the civillians in the countries they occupied very badly .They may not have marched around with babies on the end of bayonets ,but did massacre civilians .
In WW2 wermacht regular forces just as guilty as SS in various atrocities (probably the option of sitting out burning villages wasn't really
there) but still .If your countries being a kunt not really a good excuse to
say your just doing your duty.
 
#12
easesprings said:
They lost


Its the same for their cemetries they are hard to find and not as well kept
German cemeteries are larger and less numerous because of the desecration that they suffered at the hands of the French after the Great War. It was common to find disinterred skulls adorning headstones for many years afterwards so the smaller cemeteries were closed and the bodies concentrated in larger cemeteries. Or so the Chief Archaeologist for Arras told me a few years ago.

He also mentioned that there was a second wave of vandalism in 1940 when the victorious German Army swept back towards the Channel. The French discovered that the headstones of German Jew soldiers had been methodically smashed. The headstones of Allied Jews in CWG cemeteries, however, were rarely attacked.
 
#13
seaweed said:
Please let's recognise the enormous moral gulf between fighting for freedom, justice, democracy and the rule of law on the one hand; and fighting to plunge the whole of the world into a Nazi dictatorship on the other. That, and the evil litany of German war crimes everywhere they went, completely negate any concept of 'honour' for German soldiers. I'm just amazed the French don't plough up their German cemeteries. A German National Day of Shame on November 11th would be the least they owe the world.
This post disgusts me - Don't blame those who fought for their country with honour for the sins of theit corrupt political leadership.
 
#14
Very much agreed - the ordinary German soldier served with as much honour as any other. Suspect the inflicted German psych of today may not like it though.[/quote]

Well apart from those who took part in war crimes .Not just an SS gestapo past time .
In the WW1 the germans treated the civillians in the countries they occupied very badly .They may not have marched around with babies on the end of bayonets ,but did massacre civilians .
In WW2 wermacht regular forces just as guilty as SS in various atrocities (probably the option of sitting out burning villages wasn't really
there) but still .If your countries being a kunt not really a good excuse to
say your just doing your duty.[/quote]

Obviously I'm not excusing war criminals - they did after all get what they deserved. I'm talking of someone like you and I born in Germany with a love and pride in my country doing what I felt is right. After all do you not think Versailles might have had a little to do withh WW2. As an irrelevant afterthougt many German Jews fought and died in WW1.
 
#15
King_of_the_Burpas said:
I'm surprised that the Septics don't embrace the poppy either, affiliated in some way to the Haig fund.


Who says we don't? :threaten: :wink:

Poppy Program

In the World War I battlefields of Belgium, poppies grew wild amid the ravaged landscape. How could such a pretty little flower grow wild while surrounded by death and destruction? The overturned soils of battle enabled the poppy seeds to be covered, thus allowing them to grow and to forever serve as a reminder of the bloodshed during that and future wars.

In 1921, the American Legion Auxiliary adopted the poppy as the organization's memorial flower and pledged its use to benefit our servicemen and their families. Today, the poppy continues to provide a financial and therapeutic benefit to those hospitalized and disabled veterans who construct them, as well as benefiting thousands of other veterans and their families.

Each nine-piece poppy is made by veterans for veterans in Auxiliary sponsored Poppy Shops that supplement physical and psychological therapy needed by hospitalized and disabled veterans. The Auxiliary provides the materials and the volunteers. The veteran makes the poppy and is paid a small amount for each painstakingly made flower. For some it is their only income.

No matter what the cost of maintaining and supplying the Poppy Shops, the memorial poppy is never sold, but given in exchange for a contribution.
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#16
seaweed said:
Please let's recognise the enormous moral gulf between fighting for freedom, justice, democracy and the rule of law on the one hand; and fighting to plunge the whole of the world into a Nazi dictatorship on the other. That, and the evil litany of German war crimes everywhere they went, completely negate any concept of 'honour' for German soldiers. I'm just amazed the French don't plough up their German cemeteries. A German National Day of Shame on November 11th would be the least they owe the world.
Pretty narrow perspective there.....
Most soldiers fight for their mates around them and at the most their unit - not for the polititians of the day. If you ever read any memoirs of German/Axis soldiers you will find they believed in what they were fighting for at the time, had the same ideals we remember when joining up and most were good god fearing catholics rather than homicidal would-be war criminals.
The French have plenty of respect for war dead - of any origin. In Alsace, Lorraine and other French border regions nationality has changed many times and families are of mixed origin.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7718201.stm they dont mind acknowledging this ignominious event, so why not the fallen?
 
#17
King_of_the_Burpas said:
I'm surprised that the Septics don't embrace the poppy either, affiliated in some way to the Haig fund.
It is slowly making a comeback here. I have been surprised how often people recognize it. I was even asked if I was British while wearing mine.
 
#18
There is no official remembrance day in Germany that comes close to what we do, but the Boxheeds do have a few to offer.

Der Tag des Gedenkens an die Opfer des Nationalsozialismus (Day of Remembrance for the Victims of National Socialism) is a national remembrance day in Germany. It calls to mind all those who lost their lives during the Nazi regime. It falls on the 27 January, which happens to be the day on which the Ivans liberated all the prisoners in Auschwitz-Birkenau.

On the other hand there’s the 8 May: Tag des Gedenkens an die gefallenen Soldaten der Wehrmacht im Zweiten Weltkrieg in Europa (Day of Remembrance for the Fallen Soldiers of the German Army in Europe). It’s celebrated annually in Vienna, of all places.

Interestingly, from 1950 until 1966, the 8 May was an unofficial holiday in the former GDR and was known as “Der Tag der Befreiung” – Liberation Day.

MsG
 
#19
Bugsy said:
There is no official remembrance day in Germany that comes close to what we do, but the Boxheeds do have a few to offer.

Der Tag des Gedenkens an die Opfer des Nationalsozialismus (Day of Remembrance for the Victims of National Socialism) is a national remembrance day in Germany. It calls to mind all those who lost their lives during the Nazi regime. It falls on the 27 January, which happens to be the day on which the Ivans liberated all the prisoners in Auschwitz-Birkenau.

On the other hand there’s the 8 May: Tag des Gedenkens an die gefallenen Soldaten der Wehrmacht im Zweiten Weltkrieg in Europa (Day of Remembrance for the Fallen Soldiers of the German Army in Europe). It’s celebrated annually in Vienna, of all places.

Interestingly, from 1950 until 1966, the 8 May was an unofficial holiday in the former GDR and was known as “Der Tag der Befreiung” – Liberation Day.

MsG
Shame about the Vienna connection but otherwise good drills.
 
#20
As far as German war cemeteries go, the one at Maleme on Crete is impeccably kept over looking the airfield, It is as well kept as the CWGC cemetery at Suda Bay on if a little different in 'style'.
 

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