Why do the SIB wear suits?

#1
Surely under the policy of 'Soldiers First', this must be the time for the SIB to adopt the standard dress of the British Army, after all although some of them sometimes forget it, they are still serving members of HM Forces.

Granted whilst 15% of them do look smart, 25% dress like London Stockbrokers and the remainder look like some crazy mix of HOBO and Columbo.

Is there a real reason for the SIB to wear suits?
 
#3
Redcapped_Avenger said:
Surely under the policy of 'Soldiers First', this must be the time for the SIB to adopt the standard dress of the British Army, after all although some of them sometimes forget it, they are still serving members of HM Forces.

Granted whilst 15% of them do look smart, 25% dress like London Stockbrokers and the remainder look like some crazy mix of HOBO and Columbo.

Is there a real reason for the SIB to ware suits?
Cos' they're the army equivalant of CID................Cnuts In Disguise!!! :D
 

Fugly

ADC
DirtyBAT
#5
soprano54 said:
Redcapped_Avenger said:
Surely under the policy of 'Soldiers First', this must be the time for the SIB to adopt the standard dress of the British Army, after all although some of them sometimes forget it, they are still serving members of HM Forces.

Granted whilst 15% of them do look smart, 25% dress like London Stockbrokers and the remainder look like some crazy mix of HOBO and Columbo.

Is there a real reason for the SIB to ware suits?
Cos' they're the civvy equivelant of CID................Cnuts In Disguise!!! :D
:? :p
 
#6
Redcapped_Avenger said:
Surely under the policy of 'Soldiers First', this must be the time for the SIB to adopt the standard dress of the British Army, after all although some of them sometimes forget it, they are still serving members of HM Forces.

Granted whilst 15% of them do look smart, 25% dress like London Stockbrokers and the remainder look like some crazy mix of HOBO and Columbo.

Is there a real reason for the SIB to ware suits?
Because they are too eh hem 'rotund' for their CS95 :?
 
#7
Smudge, cheers for the correction - spelling never was my strong point. RCA
 
#8
Redcapped_Avenger said:
spelling never was my strong point. RCA
and why you will never wear a suit!
 
#10
Maybe I will stick to Ops, have no choice at this stage of my career. Just looking at the future and wanted to know the answer to my original question. Came here for a broader answer to why the SIB wear suits, as all I get at work is that the SIB are failed GPD and think that they are something special.

I dont wont to know about the bitching between GPD and SIB, this would go on for years and I get it everyday in a Pro Coy, over to you for a sensible answer - if that is not too much to ask? RCA
 
#11
Redcapped_Avenger said:
Maybe I will stick to Ops, have no choice at this stage of my career. Just looking at the future and wanted to know the answer to my original question. Came here for a broader answer to why the SIB wear suits, as all I get at work is that the SIB are failed GPD and think that they are something special.

I dont wont to know about the bitching between GPD and SIB, this would go on for years and I get it everyday in a UK Coy, over to you for a sensible answer - if that is not too much to ask? RCA
LMAO, no really, can't keep the tears from falling, my ribs hurt ffs! How could any of us "fail" at GPD? It aint rocket science fella! I think you'll find a lot more GPD bods who have attempted and fallen by the wayside on attachments to SIB. It always really grates me that there is such a divide between GPD & Branch, afterall, all of us Branch lot started off in GPD, but decided to move on, what exactly is the problem with that???? I know good and bad in both, I've met GPD Cpls who know guff all about Ops or policework, and a fair few branch that really should never wear green or be given a weapon. Horses for courses as they say. Personally I like a bit of both (not in that way!!) I like investigating and I really don't mind wearing green/sand when required.
 
#12
I suspect that the reason is to do with the 'liaison' with civilian counterparts, both social and non-social in all theatres (less obvious op ones). The terrorist threats may also have had something to do with it too as constant changing in/out of uniform to pop down the road to the local plod CID would not be time efficient.

Although it does offer a sort of camoflage for there deficiencies. If you had a SIB Sgt in uniform, who came across a group of soldiers misbehaving it could end up disastrous. I knew 1 SIB Sgt who had only 3 years military service. Notwithstanding his ability to write reports, remember definitions and make a good brew, his military experience could only be likened to a LCpl. Thus it makes sense for them not to get involved and be able to skulk away unnoticed.

The lack of a rank slide can offer an air of uneasiness when dealing with guilty fatherless also, and nosey officers/RSMs are less likely to poke about.
 
#13
It's a mixture of reasons and a bit of nonsense as well.

1. If you think about it in UK and to an extent in Europe SIB work quite a bit in the civilian environment and it was just easier to get about not sticking out like a sore thumb.
2. Pre NI and certainly during National service SIB wore uniform and occasionally conducted 'plain clothes duties'
3. Most of society look down their noses at the Army and you have more credibility in a suit.
4. Pretty difficult to go down the pub with the local CID in a uniform.
5. During the 1960s there was a cult of James Bond in SIB therefore sharp suits and Walther PPKs.
6. SIB was formed from the Metropolitan Police not CMP therefore they brought their own traditions and prejudices.
7. It's easier to go shopping or down the pub straight from work.
8.Because they can.
9. Wearing civvies gives you 'cred' in a uniform environment and people senior to you are not quite sure of your status

There are a lot of down sides to the suits business. Not least the expense.
99% of the time it is not necessary but have you ever looked at one in uniform?
 
#14
In addition to the original question it could be asked 'Why do members of the SIB need to wear the minimum rank of Sgt?'

Surely they act on the same authority as the LCpl on his first patrol as a GPD NCO, that being of the PM (A)? Afterall the CID in the civil police force do not gain rank purely for having completed the Detective training course, so why do the SIB?

I am not slating this, but I am playing devils advocate, so why then?
 
#15
whocares said:
In addition to the original question it could be asked 'Why do members of the SIB need to wear the minimum rank of Sgt?'

Surely they act on the same authority as the LCpl on his first patrol as a GPD NCO, that being of the PM (A)? Afterall the CID in the civil police force do not gain rank purely for having completed the Detective training course, so why do the SIB?

I am not slating this, but I am playing devils advocate, so why then?
Again, back to the originals can you imagine the Met roughing it? They were trying to recruit experienced Detectives (not newly qualified ones). Given what an SIB investigator does day to day JNCO status would suffice really. Mind you conversely there are a lot in the Corps doing little more or maybe less than an infantry Private so careful where you let your logic go.

When you say 'wear' you don't mean on their suits do you? it was strictly on your boxers in my day?
 
#16
"Came here for a broader answer to why the SIB wear suits"

So, monkey boy, perhaps you are destined to spend the next 22 years in a cabbage suit if you cant work out that the easiest way to get your answer would be to get off your fat monkey arse and go and find one of the Siht In Bulk and ask him or her. I am sure you would get the right answer.

Fcuking Muppets eh.
 
#17
western said:
It's a mixture of reasons and a bit of nonsense as well.

1. If you think about it in UK and to an extent in Europe SIB work quite a bit in the civilian environment and it was just easier to get about not sticking out like a sore thumb.
2. Pre NI and certainly during National service SIB wore uniform and occasionally conducted 'plain clothes duties'
3. Most of society look down their noses at the Army and you have more credibility in a suit.
4. Pretty difficult to go down the pub with the local CID in a uniform.
5. During the 1960s there was a cult of James Bond in SIB therefore sharp suits and Walther PPKs.
6. SIB was formed from the Metropolitan Police not CMP therefore they brought their own traditions and prejudices.
7. It's easier to go shopping or down the pub straight from work.
8.Because they can.
9. Wearing civvies gives you 'cred' in a uniform environment and people senior to you are not quite sure of your status

There are a lot of down sides to the suits business. Not least the expense.
99% of the time it is not necessary but have you ever looked at one in uniform?
You forgot - the fairly generous clothing allowance which can be spent on beer/pies etc whilst suits are simply purchased from Oxfam!

Seriously though, wherever the SIB see their roots, I personally see no need for them all to be SNCOs. The uniform thing, I disagree, They should wear suits in barracks, combats in the field and for the same reason mentioned previously - civilian clothes create an air of uncertainty (and its easier to get to the shops/pub/knocking shop/whatever).

Unfortunately, there seems to be a lack of quality volunteers in this day and age (frequent ops perhaps) and so they are forced to accept fairly junior guys who lack command and actually lack general military/RMP experience too. I am also aware that SIB have also accepted indivual(s) who have fairly serious criminal convictions!!

Bottom line - You do NOT need to be a Sgt to be a good detective. Its probably more of a pay thing that remains from the good old day of one pay band. Like the 'Old Bill' we would be far better sharing our experience so perhaps start with GPD - promotion = spell with SIB - next promotion = saluting traffic wardens - back to SIB = promotion etc.

Hard to do though now GPD and SIB Sgt are not on equal pay bands.
 
#18
Sunray, I seriously hope that the comment about "Generous clothing allowance" was a Wah of huge proportions? Since when has £150 (after tax) been generous? Have you ever been able to find a decent suit/shirt/tie combo for that money, let alone all the dry cleaning bills and the fact that you generally need more than one of each?
I am always seriously out of pocket in spite of the 'generous' clothing allowance. Throw is a pair or two of shoes together with the 5 shirts, at least 5 ties and 3 suits and I think that you'll find that £150 doesn't even nearly cover it mate!

That's why you sometimes see what some on this forum might describe as "scruffy" looking Sgt's in the Branch. Not many people can maitain spending way above the allowance to 'look good' just so that we can get minging doing a room search on some scrote and having to go through his laundry locker, or tipping up at a fatal TA in the pishing rain at 3 am.

Primark everytime, lol! :twisted:
 
#19
WTD,

Yes, it was posted as a sarcastic remark. (thats the problem with the 2D Internet, sometimes only the author sees the funny side)!

BUT, actually it is not a clothing allowance that SIB get - it is a maintenance allowance and intended only to cover dry cleaning bills and shoe repairs etc. Thats the down side to the privilage of wearing your own clothes. It is NOT policy for SIB to wear civilian clothes and is actually a consession allowed by PM (A. He could put the SIB back into uniform anytime he wishes - so be nice to him! This was similar to LPO in the old days in NI. Civilian clothing was an option and one that made the job easier. So those who served in LPO also got the 'generous' allowance to which I refer.

To my knowledge, only Close Protection Operatives (on Black deployments) get a proper clothing allowance (1x for warm and 1x for cold climates) and damn right too!
 
#20
Sunray,
Thanks for explaining that, I didn't actually realise, buit as you have explained, allow me to retort.
£150 STILL doesn't cover dry cleaning expenses on the whole, and as such I will be tipping up at the Sect in uniform from now on. I don't mind wearing Greens for work if it's gonna save me a fortune on dry cleaning bills and the ballsache of having to drop off/pick up said dry cleaning!
 

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