Why do Armrs have a class 1 course?

#1
I remember doing my class 1 course, and it was no different from phase 2 training, even down to the same GPMG barrel with the same "seperated case" in it.

Phase 2 was actually harder, as there was all the bench fighting to do, and all the classes.

The Class 1 course was a waste of time. The only difference was the 105 light gun at the end of the course.

How much does the MoD pay VT to "train" us on the same material?

Is this still the case, or is it different now?
 
#2
Well, speaking as one who is currently 'enjoying' the cl1 cse.

It seems a little different, the Kremlin phase, in my mind, served no purpose other than to remind me of why I wont be going tiffy.

The bench fitting joke, i mean phase, seems a bit pointless.

Now in the SA wing and its carry on normal jogging.
I had truly forgotten a lot of the 'book answers' and it was worrying to see some of the results (mine included)

As we are continuously being reminded by 'the pipe smoker' - 'we are there to be assessed on our ability to inspect weapons, and to verify that we are competent to work alone, and unsupervised.'
The standards seem to be higher, and there are more 'short' answer questions on the exams

There is nothing new (apart form the guns phase) and in fact some things are not touched on.

We were also consulted on the feasibility of dropping the wr phase from the cl1 cse, and possibly even the cl3 cse (would become eqpt cse, as minimi has)

I keep hearing from guys who say 'my cl1 was only 6wks', but I would like to see the differences (ours is now 6m)
 
#3
Mine was 6 months as well. Though we didn't do bench fitting on Class 1.

I think they should leave AFV510 in the phase 2 training. Why would they take it out?!?!

Good to seee that "the pipe smoker" is still there. Is it Mr Roper?
 
#4
'we are there to be assessed on our ability to inspect weapons, and to verify that we are competent to work alone, and unsupervised.'
Can't think of a better reason for the class 1 course than that.

Too many Armourers were becoming parts mechanics and not "proper" Armourers.

Artisan's rule OK :wink:
 
#5
No_Duff said:
'we are there to be assessed on our ability to inspect weapons, and to verify that we are competent to work alone, and unsupervised.'
Can't think of a better reason for the class 1 course than that.

Too many Armourers were becoming parts mechanics and not "proper" Armourers.

Artisan's rule OK :wink:
Well in that case why not go straight to the SA wing?
 
#6
smudge67 said:
Mine was 6 months as well. Though we didn't do bench fitting on Class 1.

I think they should leave AFV510 in the phase 2 training. Why would they take it out?!?!

Good to seee that "the pipe smoker" is still there. Is it Mr Roper?
I'm not going to mention how long mine was :D
 
#7
As previously mentioned, the class 1 course is an assessment of your ability to work alone and unsupervised to repair and inspect equipment and systems.

The pass standard is higher, both for bench fitting and equipment repair. Armourers are not just weapon repairers, they need a firm grounding in general engineering too, including fabrication.

The comment about parts mechanics is a different topic altogether. At sub-unit level, it often makes more sense to change a component rather than repair it as the item can be returned to action sooner. The swapped out component can be repaired further down the logistics chain in slower time.
 
#8
What do you get to make in bench fighting on the Class 1? I'm drooling with anticipation ;)
 
#11
I wasnt going to mention his name, he has been dragged out of retirement, purely to beast cl1's I think!

The bench fighting phase is 1.5 days, half a day revision on eng practises, and supposedly a day making a handle for a tap. our cse missed half a day due to no instr, and then lost 2 hrs for a mcm brief.
 

Ravers

LE
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
#12
And to think, you could join the TA and do a quick two week course and get the same qualification at the end of it.
 
#13
Ravers said:
And to think, you could join the TA and do a quick two week course and get the same qualification at the end of it.
:) If only - Not much learning, just straight into the assessments, L96, L85/86, GPMG, L9, Mortars, etc, etc.

You do however get the joys of lifting tackle - a pointless waste of time that would be better spent on other weapons systems or XofO OHF, both of which are not covered on the Armr Snr. (Along with quite a lot of other things funnily enough.)

Personally I think the qualification means bog all compared to experience and competence - maybe continual assessment by an Armr SNCO and the odd exam would be better than a class 1?
 
#14
I am intrigued, what dont the TA cover?

Not a p*ss take, gen question, I know that you cant sign OHF certs, is there anything else that you cannot sign off?
 
#15
You only cover; L96, L85/86, GPMG, L9 & Mortars on the TA snr cse, but if you're lucky you'll get a quick UGL and Minimi cse thrown in.

Can't do XofO of OHF, you can, or at least you used to be able to, organise a separate equipment course for your individual requirements. So depending on what job you're doing you can tailor your training.

If you're going on tour you just need to find out what your units going to be playing with and hop on the relevant cse before you go.
 
#16
Did mine in 1996- no specific lessons on OHF, NDs or 351s- all the things a class 1 is expected to do. Got a guy now just off his course and didn't do these either. Must be just me that fills in the course critiques.
Is L96 still taught? Now obsolete I wonder how long it will take to come out of the syllabus. HMG, 338 & GMG should be part of the basic course as they're here to stay, it's a major pain getting guys on courses as pound to a pinch of sh1te they'll be during PDT and clash with the units firing packages.
 
#17
Gun_Doc said:
Did mine in 1996- no specific lessons on OHF, NDs or 351s- all the things a class 1 is expected to do. Got a guy now just off his course and didn't do these either. Must be just me that fills in the course critiques.
Is L96 still taught? Now obsolete I wonder how long it will take to come out of the syllabus. HMG, 338 & GMG should be part of the basic course as they're here to stay, it's a major pain getting guys on courses as pound to a pinch of sh1te they'll be during PDT and clash with the units firing packages.
L96 - Have they gone? We had them in Ghanners last year.
 
#18
L96 is still 'in'.
I was conversing with a royal on the amount of .338's sat in the armscote at bordon when the instructors had a big belly laugh after one commented, 'thats the closest you'll get to them' -belter.

The basic cse's are now taught .338, but not minimi or sig.
UG dont do .338, I mean, why would we need to eh??
I think the training syllabus is in the throes of a big shake up at the moment, so who knows where its going
 
#19
armr617 said:
L96 is still 'in'.
I was conversing with a royal on the amount of .338's sat in the armscote at bordon when the instructors had a big belly laugh after one commented, 'thats the closest you'll get to them' -belter.

The basic cse's are now taught .338, but not minimi or sig.
UG dont do .338, I mean, why would we need to eh??
I think the training syllabus is in the throes of a big shake up at the moment, so who knows where its going
New syllabus

Pistol pyro
Gas discharger
2 Inch Mortar
Bow; Long...
 
#20
armr617 said:
L96 is still 'in'.
I was conversing with a royal on the amount of .338's sat in the armscote at bordon when the instructors had a big belly laugh after one commented, 'thats the closest you'll get to them' -belter.

L96s were due to be withdrawn from us early last year but the Bde had dispensation to keep hold of them for H10. They were backloaded before Christmas and will not be seen again, hence the introduction of the Sharpshooter rifle.
Every (LR) Inf Bn now has 338s. 338 STTE looks like a krypton factor assessment- will wait for my class 3 to turn up to show me how to use it.
CCTA, you may joke but we were sent out to Kosovo in 2008 only to be issued L67s and gas guns!
 
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