Why Defend the UK?

Andy_S

LE
Book Reviewer
#1
I understand that many of those who join the Forces do for personal - adventure, travel, mateship, planes, tanks and guns, etc - rather than for altruisic reasons. However, there must be some sense of the national interest, and a lot of servicmen ARE patriotic.

Then we have ARSSE. Given the immense amount of really intense slagging that our Sceptered Isle suffers on this site - from posters who are the nation's current or retired defenders, and given also the many posters who seem keen to retire abroad - I wonder what it is that is you think makes today's UK worth defending?

- Is there such a thing as "The British Way of Life" and if so, is it worth fighting for - either to force it upon others ("The Empire!"), or to defend against Nazis, Irish terrorists, Jihadis, etc?

- Is British foreign policy decent, just, and worth enforcing?

- Are the British people a principled and moral society who need to be defended from external enemies?

- Are our institutions - government, judiciary, media, education - things you take pride in, that you would lay down life and limb for?

- Finally - in your opinion - what is there still in Britain that is good, world class or better than its counterparts in other nations?

(And for all those who blame every damn thing on the Labour Government: Come on. The UK is not about to suddenly transform itself into a paradise after the election - or even after a couple of decades of Tory rule. What you have now is what you are going to have for the forseeable future.)

FWIW, I live/work abroad so, perhaps, view things through rose coloured specs. Also, of course, one does not use a bulletin board as one's only barometer of public opinion. But I must admit, I am bewildered by the self-hatred the country comes in for on ARSSE, and on my last trip to the UK (last summer) was surprised at how many people told me they wanted out.
 
#2
I do not hate the country or the Government although they do deserve a good malleting.

We cant all feck off to sunnier climes.

It looks bad just now as it is. Coming home from other countries, you can't help but notice the small things changing.
 
#3
Andy, Good question matey!

I joined up for personal reasons. It's a job now. It has never been about defending these 'sceptered isles' or 'queen and country'. It's just a job. Admittedly, I loved the earlier part of my career, but that was probably due to having SFA in the way of responsibility and the idiocy of youth. The longer I serve the less I enjoy the job (still love the Army - just hate the job).

As for laying down one's life. I don't think any servicemens last thoughts are of Britain - ever. Certainly won't be mine. IMO - The sense of duty is to each other. If your mucker is in the sh*t you'll go and help him/ her - simples. If you look at the latest news reports a lot of the squaddies who have died in recent ops are dying trying to extract their wounded mates, to me that speaks volumes about the prime motivator.

As for our relationship with Britain, it's not just squaddies who want out of the place. The place is a fuc*ing mess.

Policing -Fuc*ed
Government - Fuc*ed
Housing - Fuc*ed
Economy - Fuc*ed
Schools - Fuc*ed
Immigration - Fuc*ed
Benefit System - Fuc*ed (unless you're Sven/ Whet in which case it's fuc*in great)
Criminal Justice System - Fuc*ed
Transport system - Fuc*ed
and on
and on and on and on

Why wouldn't you leave?

Cliched as it sounds, it is not the country I grew up in and other than family I hold no ties. I am looking forward to finding a country that isn't Britain.

As for what is Britain better at than the rest of the world?

Political correctness
Instigating sh*t immigration policies
Apologising
Health & Safety
Taxing it's population
Having a crap democracy
Coming to a complete standstill when it snows
and shafting itself up the arrse at every given opportunity!
 
#4
Despite the best efforts of thieving politicians (of all flavours) to run this country for their own financial gain this is still the finest nation on earth.
Yes it has been administered in the most appaling fashion for the last decade or two but it is still the same country with largely the same people (bar for a few million imported oppurtunists from Somalia, Poland, Nigeria, akistan and the likes)
Bar for a few million religious lunatics (domestic and imported) the people of this land are generally very tolerant and on the whole quite a kindly bunch.
Although justice has been subverted by corrupt politicians of late we have a long tradition of operating a pretty just and balanced society, we invented the Bill of Rights and justice for all (even if we haven't always applied it very well)
Despite the morons in Whitehall apologising for anything and everything we have a history to be proud of, we brought civilisation to huge portions of the world whether they wanted it or not.
Up until recently this country has never knuckled under to foreign powers, the current fad for selling everything out to the great EU project will pass and we will stand on our own two feet again.
Setting aside the Iraq part and the current lack of direction in Afghanistan this country has a proud military history and has always had an outright refusal to accept defeat. Just because we are currently governed by spineless cnuts who are only interested in lining their own pockets doesn't mean the future is pre-ordained to be bleak on that score.
We are an ingenious people, we have invented half of the things in the world that are worth having, once we get past the idea that we can't do anything as cheap as the Chinks we will return to our place as an industrial nation that makes things better and more efficiently than anyone else.
People will not tolerate the intrusive state as it is forever, government is slowly discovering that they have gone to far and we won't take it forever, our greatest strength in this country is our tolerance, it is also our greatest weakness.

Yes millions of us have had enough and have/are considering bailing out for somweherenot quite so bleak, but millions of us haven't quite brought oursleves to do it.
The country is in the shite, it has been economically mismanaged to the point of disaster.
We have imported millions of people we don't want.
We have allowed governement to think the place of the people is to serve the state and forget that the function of government is to administer the country on our behalf

We as a people are guilty of allowing Whitehall to take the piss. People ae more aware of politics than they ever have been before.
The rise of the likes of the BNP is healthy, it means people are kicking back at the politicians at last and there is still hope for this country.
Expenses, Immigration and the EU have fired up the electorate, people care and come the general election we are going to speak. The politicians are going to listen, not because they want too but because they are going to have too.
As it stands now, the UK is a shithole dominated by corruption in the highest offices of the land. That is going to change, one way or another.
This last week or so half a million people spoke out on the internet about Islam4UK on the internet, the public is offended. It is offended by thieving politicians, it is offended by religious intolerance imported into this country by people who do not belong, it is offended my financial mismanagement, it is offended by politicians stealing out of our pockets.

So yes, this country is on its knackers, but it is also healthier than it has been in decades. The people of this country want and demand better than they are getting right now.
Give them a little time and they will stand up and force that change.
 
#5
I love the country and would die to defend it, unfortunately some of the people that reside on this sculptured isle seem fit to ruin it and concrete it over in the name of diversity and political correctness.
 
#6
Defend our country? It is no longer our problem. The home defence roled units were binned under the SDR, the assessment being that there was no longer a credible direct threat to the UK. Defence of the Realm is now down to Eurofighter Typhoon and if they fail, Trident.
 
#7
BPS666 said:
Andy, Good question matey!

I joined up for personal reasons. It's a job now. It has never been about defending these 'sceptered isles' or 'queen and country'. It's just a job. Admittedly, I loved the earlier part of my career, but that was probably due to having SFA in the way of responsibility and the idiocy of youth. The longer I serve the less I enjoy the job (still love the Army - just hate the job).

As for laying down one's life. I don't think any servicemens last thoughts are of Britain - ever. Certainly won't be mine. IMO - The sense of duty is to each other. If your mucker is in the sh*t you'll go and help him/ her - simples. If you look at the latest news reports a lot of the squaddies who have died in recent ops are dying trying to extract their wounded mates, to me that speaks volumes about the prime motivator.

As for our relationship with Britain, it's not just squaddies who want out of the place. The place is a fuc*ing mess.

Policing -Fuc*ed
Government - Fuc*ed
Housing - Fuc*ed
Economy - Fuc*ed
Schools - Fuc*ed
Immigration - Fuc*ed
Benefit System - Fuc*ed (unless you're Sven/ Whet in which case it's fuc*in great)
Criminal Justice System - Fuc*ed
Transport system - Fuc*ed
and on
and on and on and on

Why wouldn't you leave?

Cliched as it sounds, it is not the country I grew up in and other than family I hold no ties. I am looking forward to finding a country that isn't Britain.

As for what is Britain better at than the rest of the world?

Political correctness
Instigating sh*t immigration policies
Apologising
Health & Safety
Taxing it's population
Having a crap democracy
Coming to a complete standstill when it snows
and shafting itself up the arrse at every given opportunity!
You're my type of spokesperson mate! You have hit the nail on the head as regards the total shambles this country is in. I propose that Alexander from the Compare the Meerkat advert is put forward as a candidate for Prime Minister at the upcoming General election. He had to struggle through the Siberian winter to make the grade!
 
#9
jagman said:
Despite the best efforts of thieving politicians (of all flavours) to run this country for their own financial gain this is still the finest nation on earth.
Yes it has been administered in the most appaling fashion for the last decade or two but it is still the same country with largely the same people (bar for a few million imported oppurtunists from Somalia, Poland, Nigeria, akistan and the likes)
Bar for a few million religious lunatics (domestic and imported) the people of this land are generally very tolerant and on the whole quite a kindly bunch.
Although justice has been subverted by corrupt politicians of late we have a long tradition of operating a pretty just and balanced society, we invented the Bill of Rights and justice for all (even if we haven't always applied it very well)
Despite the morons in Whitehall apologising for anything and everything we have a history to be proud of, we brought civilisation to huge portions of the world whether they wanted it or not.
Up until recently this country has never knuckled under to foreign powers, the current fad for selling everything out to the great EU project will pass and we will stand on our own two feet again.
Setting aside the Iraq part and the current lack of direction in Afghanistan this country has a proud military history and has always had an outright refusal to accept defeat. Just because we are currently governed by spineless cnuts who are only interested in lining their own pockets doesn't mean the future is pre-ordained to be bleak on that score.
We are an ingenious people, we have invented half of the things in the world that are worth having, once we get past the idea that we can't do anything as cheap as the Chinks we will return to our place as an industrial nation that makes things better and more efficiently than anyone else.
People will not tolerate the intrusive state as it is forever, government is slowly discovering that they have gone to far and we won't take it forever, our greatest strength in this country is our tolerance, it is also our greatest weakness.

Yes millions of us have had enough and have/are considering bailing out for somweherenot quite so bleak, but millions of us haven't quite brought oursleves to do it.
The country is in the shite, it has been economically mismanaged to the point of disaster.
We have imported millions of people we don't want.
We have allowed governement to think the place of the people is to serve the state and forget that the function of government is to administer the country on our behalf

We as a people are guilty of allowing Whitehall to take the piss. People ae more aware of politics than they ever have been before.
The rise of the likes of the BNP is healthy, it means people are kicking back at the politicians at last and there is still hope for this country.
Expenses, Immigration and the EU have fired up the electorate, people care and come the general election we are going to speak. The politicians are going to listen, not because they want too but because they are going to have too.
As it stands now, the UK is a shithole dominated by corruption in the highest offices of the land. That is going to change, one way or another.
This last week or so half a million people spoke out on the internet about Islam4UK on the internet, the public is offended. It is offended by thieving politicians, it is offended by religious intolerance imported into this country by people who do not belong, it is offended my financial mismanagement, it is offended by politicians stealing out of our pockets.

So yes, this country is on its knackers, but it is also healthier than it has been in decades. The people of this country want and demand better than they are getting right now.
Give them a little time and they will stand up and force that change.
Many, many thanks for your superb post. I really hope the people do stand up and force change soon !
 
#10
BPS666 said:
Andy, Good question matey!

I joined up for personal reasons. It's a job now. It has never been about defending these 'sceptered isles' or 'queen and country'. It's just a job. Admittedly, I loved the earlier part of my career, but that was probably due to having SFA in the way of responsibility and the idiocy of youth. The longer I serve the less I enjoy the job (still love the Army - just hate the job).

As for laying down one's life. I don't think any servicemens last thoughts are of Britain - ever. Certainly won't be mine. IMO - The sense of duty is to each other. If your mucker is in the sh*t you'll go and help him/ her - simples. If you look at the latest news reports a lot of the squaddies who have died in recent ops are dying trying to extract their wounded mates, to me that speaks volumes about the prime motivator.

As for our relationship with Britain, it's not just squaddies who want out of the place. The place is a fuc*ing mess.

Policing -Fuc*ed
Government - Fuc*ed
Housing - Fuc*ed
Economy - Fuc*ed
Schools - Fuc*ed
Immigration - Fuc*ed
Benefit System - Fuc*ed (unless you're Sven/ Whet in which case it's fuc*in great)
Criminal Justice System - Fuc*ed
Transport system - Fuc*ed
and on
and on and on and on

Why wouldn't you leave?

Cliched as it sounds, it is not the country I grew up in and other than family I hold no ties. I am looking forward to finding a country that isn't Britain.

As for what is Britain better at than the rest of the world?

Political correctness
Instigating sh*t immigration policies
Apologising
Health & Safety
Taxing it's population
Having a crap democracy
Coming to a complete standstill when it snows
and shafting itself up the arrse at every given opportunity!
So you're going to emmigrate somewhere to drip about immigration? :D
 
#11
Winston Churchill said....."A thousand years scarce serve to build a State..an hour may lay it in the dust".

Well its taken the Labia Party slightly longer, but they have sure managed it. :x :x :x :x :x
 
#12
bernoulli said:
So you're going to emmigrate somewhere to drip about immigration? :D
The irony of it isn't lost on me and I take your point.

I will be migrating because there truly is nothing I like about Britain anymore. I simply cannot stand the thought of having to live there. Having no affinity to the place I can't really call the place home. I begrudge every single penny that goes to the government and more and more I become angry at the slightest thing. I am not content to accept my lot as most other people see fit and am willing to move anywhere that will allow me to live my life with the minimum of interference from those that have forgotten that they are there to serve not be served.

Those that see Britain as some sort of Shngri-La clearly have different values to mine and to an extent I am jealous because they can see worth where all I can see is a fast declining turd of a country that is fast becoming a parody of it's former self.

I don't know what I expected from Britain but what we have now is definately not it. I see no way back and I am determined that not one more penny than is absoloutley neccasary will go from my pocket into a government that gives it to fuckwits like sven/ whet. It's not just labour it's all of the arrseholes. They don't listen and they never have. They never will.

I really don't care where I end up, just on the proviso that it isn't Britain.

I will not miss the place ever. Family yes, undoubtedly. Britain? - Fuck no!

Doubt I'll ever come back and it is only the pension trap that keeps me in.

Jagman put together a very eloquent post and I wish that I could draw optimism from it but I can't. To me Britain is fucked and the way I see it is you cannot unfuck yourself.
 
#13
BPS666 said:
As for what is Britain better at than the rest of the world?
Moaning from dawn to bloody dusk. This caught my eye this morning:

Terence Blacker: Tales of national decline are overdone

The easiest way to offend is to say the British way of life is not so bad after all

One of the easiest ways for a British writer to gain cheap credibility with readers is to sneer at his fellow-countrymen. Foreigners like these acts of literary self-abuse because they make them feel smug. The English love them even more for the humiliation, so appealing to our national taste for masochism, which they provide.


Martin Amis played the game when going through his America-loving phase – "the British now lead the world in decline" was a regular interview soundbite. Geoff Dyer has just gone further with an essay for the New York Times in which he praises the Americans for their politeness and tolerance while trashing the rudeness of Britain, the coarsening of its daily life. He has terrible stories to tell. Someone had walked on to the court at his tennis club in Islington. A barman at a gastropub had been rather brisk when dealing with an American friend. "Civic life in Britain is predicated on the idea that everyone just about conceals his loathing of everyone else. To open your mouth is to risk offending someone."

Actually, the best way to offend someone in Britain is to dare to suggest that there are good things about the British way of life. Our national self-hatred is profound, almost an article of faith. In other countries, an attack on national values will cause anger; here it is defending them which enrages people.

Is Geoff Dyer right? Do we really, as a nation, loathe each other? Or was that simply a reader-pleasing joke? Come to think of it, could any sane person argue that bar staff in London are ruder than in, say, New York or Paris? An instinctive dislike of our own country now transcends class and background. The media, high and low, broadcasts the same general message: we are part of a culture which is spiralling downwards. This week, newspapers fell delightedly on yet another survey which purported to show that Britain is an increasingly grim and miserable place.

The source of this information was a little-known magazine called International Living but, no matter, its findings were prominently reported in lead stories. The quality of life in this country is now rated 25th in the world, according to International Living. We are rated below Lithuania, Uruguay and Hungary. It seems a somewhat lightweight survey – France is treasured for its "pretty sidewalk cafés", Germany is appreciated for its efficiency, and so on – yet it is widely quoted because it is bringing British readers the bad news they want to hear.

At one level, this anti-patriotism is trivial. Few of the professional writers who trot out the clichés of the moment actually elect to live abroad. Many might quietly admit (but rarely write) that the mess and social complexity which these islands offer are what make it creatively stimulating. Yet, at a more important level, national self-loathing informs the way our news is reported, the way politicians see and are seen, the way we are governed. As the London Olympics approach, it seems increasingly likely that we shall be the first country to present the games not with any kind of national pride but with a shifty sense of shame at our own general hopelessness

http://www.independent.co.uk/opinio...of-national-decline-are-overdone-1861196.html
 
#14
I joined up for a mixture of selfish and altruistic reasons. I think it's pretty simplistic to think anyone went into the recruiting office with one thought in their head (actually, maybe that is a credible position...).

'Defence of the Realm' comes pretty high in the list of reasons though, you may call it old fasioned but I am proud about where I'm from and am willing to put my money where my mouth is when it comes to it.
It never fails to suprise me what a massive contribution this country has made to civilisation, even though it's fasionable at the moment to roll your eyes and say what an awful country this is.
One college at Cambridge university has had more nobel laureattes than France, to paraphrase daniel hannan.. 'nuff said.

The way the country is being run makes me sick, but then again I never swore and oath of allegience to any of the cnuts in government.
 
#16
Come on then Para, give us one good thing about modern Britain that we as a nation can all call our own and take collective pride in. Every last man jack of us. I defy you to do it
 
#17
"I have watched this famous island descending incontinently, fecklessly, the stairway which leads to a dark gulf. It is a fine broad stairway at the beginning, but after a bit the carpet ends. A little farther on there are only flagstones, and a little farther on still these break beneath your feet... Look back upon the last five years... historians a thousand years hence will still be baffled by the mystery of our affairs. They will never understand how it was that a victorious nation, with everything in hand, suffered themselves to be brought low, and to cast away all that they had gained by measureless sacrifice and absolute victory – gone with the wind!... That is the position – that is the terrible transformation that has taken place bit by bit."

Winston Churchill said that in 1938. Why defend Britain? Because it might be a bit sh*t, and run by idiots, but its ours. And when the mood takes us we can change the world.
 
#18
Im keen on History, when I read back about battle's, British achievement etc from the past it truely makes me sad. How many millions of men have fought and died to maintain this country over the centuries? Only to see it how it is now?

I feel now that joining the British Army, I will be fighting for what Britain was, not what it is now. We are looking into emigrating, possibly to an ex-Empire country. We have family in Canada and I can honestly say I think I would feel more prepared to lay down my life for a nation like that, than this one we live in now.
 
#19
BPS666 said:
Come on then Para, give us one good thing about modern Britain that we as a nation can all call our own and take collective pride in. Every last man jack of us. I defy you to do it
I'm afraid that you'll never find anything everyone likes as people are different, but I would say three good ones are:

First class scientific research

The arts

Higher education
 
#20
Good micro breweries.
 

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