Why are we supporting a Afghan Whitewash?

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by ALVIN, Sep 11, 2009.

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

The UK's largest and busiest UNofficial military website.

The heart of the site is the forum area, including:

  1. We all know that the elections in Afghanistan have been riddled with corruption to such a extent that they have become "a joke" ---- So why is our mental government supporting such a pathetic farse ??
  2. And our Government isn't corrupt. Maybe not on the same scale as the Afghan Government but still......

    It takes time to form a democracy. Afghanistan is in its teething stages and could be for some time yet. There is more hope for Afghanistan then Iraq in my opinion.
  3. That's a very interesting view. NODUFF. Any chance you can explain why? I've not been to either (left in '94) and all I have is the news and this site for info.

    Cheers :)
  4. I think that there is no hope for some of these middle eastern countrys, not for the want of trying!! --- These type of countrys have had it's culture for thousands of years. And all of a sudden, western powers are invading by force, to conquer, depose leadership, and change the way of thinking of it's people. ---- To suit who i ask? ---- How would we feel if the same were being done to us in the western world? ----- I belive that if we did not bother them, then they would not bother us. Has the west now become the policeman of the world? --- Are we provoking terrorism by our actions? ---- Where is all this death and distruction going to lead us? ----- Is the west really a "benchmark" for world civilization?
  5. Fallschirmjager
    "And our Government isn't corrupt. Maybe not on the same scale as the Afghan Government but still......"

    Yes, Er Maybe.

  6. My bold: It used to be what was called "the white mans burden".
  7. I feel your exasperation but....

    To suit who? Us. It's no coincidence that Affers is one of the richest countries when it comes to natural resources: natural gas, uranium, iron ore and copper. Iraq is the 2nd richest place in oil and the oil is the cheapest to get hold of in the world. Russia invaded Affers in the 80s under the pretext of ridding the Mujhadeen. What it really wanted was the above and better trade links to India. We invaded Afghanistan after we crossed a few other countries off the list that we knew we couldn't invade.. Don't forget Bin Laden is a saudi. The 11/9 bombers....were Saudis. Could we have invaded Saudi Arabia? A country to this day that is funding the Taliban? Not without starting WW3 and not without plunging America into an oil crisis.

    How would we feel if the same were being done to us in the western world? It's a case of we have the bigger stick I'm 'fraid and as I recall the romans ripped us out of constant feuding tribes, brought democracy and roads to Britain and built up Europe. They did it by slaughtering every european country into submission.....but hey Europe is now the most developed place in the world.

    Has the west now become the policeman of the world? The americans are the police and corrupt as they are, give me a Western policeman anytime when compared to the Chinese or Russians. The chinese have executed more of their own people than the combined deaths of world war 1 and 2. If you want a peak into the Chinese justice system please visit this link Chinas main source of organ donors come from executed prisoners

    Are we provoking terrorism by our actions? Of course.

    Where is all this death and distruction going to lead us? It's going to supply America and Europe with enough oil until we have developed a more viable option. The natural resources will help fill the coffers of this bankrut country. If invading Iraq and Affers is the best way to ensure we don't become incredibly dependant on the Russians or the Saudi's it has to be done.

    Is the west really a "benchmark" for world civilization? When compared to what else there is to offer the West is the highest and best bench mark. For a start we believe in Society and the citizen. The east believe in Tribes and the tribesman. Is the west always right and fair and just? No....but please look at what China considers acceptable to do to it's "citizens". 8 years old, 14 hour shifts, 7 days a week - human life worth 20 cents an hour....

    But yes...it's in our interests to stabilize Afghanistan and Iraq. For security. The same reason why we stabilized Germany, Italy and Japan.
  8. My comments in red above.
  9. Is it not a case of1) our Government simply continuing to hold on to the 'poisoned chalice' passed on by Mr.Blair, who was so determined to be seen as Mr.Bush's best mate he took his country into a hasty, ill conceived and probably illegal series of Interventions, in countries that seem to want very little of what we have to offer other than money.2)Our military doing what they have always done, i.e. carry out their orders,meet objectives given and hope that eventually the kit they have to do this with will eventually catch up with their needs.

    America has wanted a new government in Afghanistan since at least 1998, three years before the attacks on 11 September 2001. The official report from a meeting of the U.S. Government's foreign policy committee on 12 February 1998, available on the U.S. Government website, confirms that the need for a West-friendly government was recognised long before the War on Terror that followed September 11th:
    "The U.S. Government's position is that we support multiple pipelines...
    The Unocal pipeline is among those pipelines that would receive our
    support under that policy. I would caution that while we do support the
    project, the U.S. Government has not at this point recognized any
    governing regime of the transit country, one of the transit countries,
    Afghanistan, through which that pipeline would be routed. But we do
    support the project."
    [ U.S. House of Reps., "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

    "The only other possible route [for the desired oil pipeline] is across,
    Afghanistan which has of course its own unique challenges."
    [ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]

    "CentGas can not begin construction until an internationally recognized
    Afghanistan Government is in place."
    [ "U.S. Interests in the Central Asian Republics", 12 Feb 1998 ]
    The Afghanistan oil pipeline project was finally able to proceed in May 2002. This could not have happened if America had not taken military action to replace the government in Afghanistan.

    The project was abandoned in 1998 when a consortium led by US energy company Unocal withdrew from the project over fears of being seen to support Afghanistan's then Taliban government.
  11. The conquest of Afghan began way before 11/9 ***9/11****

    The war on Afghanistan was sold to the public as a reaction to the attacks on 11 September 2001. However, the war was planned before the infamous 9/11 disaster, and the military action began long before the World Trade Center fell. The conquest of Afghanistan had been planned since at least 12 February 1998, and 9/11 happened just in time to secure public support for the attacks.

    3rd November 1998 - attacks stop US oil pipeline:

    Up to 80 cruise missiles were fired at Afghanistan and Sudan in August An American-funded training project in Afghanistan has closed down as a result of the US cruise missile attack on the country in August. The programme was funded by the American oil company, Unocal, which was once hoping to be involved in building a gas pipeline across the country from Turkmenistan to Pakistan.
    (BBC News, "US attack closes US project", 3 November 1998. )

    2nd January 1999 - US strikes targets in Afghanistan:
    No sooner had the Taleban won a series of victories in the north, than the US launched an attack on camps in Afghanistan run by Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who had allegedly masterminded the bombing of US embassies in East Africa.
    (BBC News, "Afghanistan: Campaign of conflict", 2 January 1999.)

    15th March 2001 - allies invade Afghanistan:
    India is believed to have joined Russia, the USA and Iran in a concerted front against Afghanistan's Taliban regime. Military sources in Delhi, claim that the opposition Northern Alliance's capture of the strategic town of Bamiyan, was precipitated by the four countries' collaborative effort.
    (Janes International Security News, "India joins anti-Taliban coalition", 15 March 2001.)

    3rd September 2001 - allies deploy huge task-force for “fictional” conflict:

    The aircraft carrier HMS Illustrious has sailed from Portsmouth to lead the biggest Royal Navy and Royal Marine deployment since the Falklands. HMS Illustrious is the flagship of three groups of warships travelling to the Middle East to take part in exercise "Saif Sareea 2". More than 24 surface ships from Britain, plus two nuclear submarines, will be completing the 13,000 mile round trip. The operation, costing nearly £100m, will end with a major excercise before Christmas that will also involve the Army, Royal Air Force and Armed Forces of Oman. The strike force has been put together to take part in a conflict between the fictional forces of the so-called state of 'Alawham' and those of Oman.
    (BBC News, Carrier heads for the Middle East, 3 September 2001. )

    11th September 2001 - the war comes home to America:

    *** 9/11 ***

    16th September 2001 - Bush prepares America to wage war overseas:

    “I want to remind the American people that the prime suspect's [Osama Bin Laden] organisation is in a lot of countries,” Mr Bush told reporters on the White House lawn.
    (BBC News, "America widens 'crusade' on terror", 16 September 2001. )

    18th September 2001 - diplomat reveals 9/11 “response” began before 9/11:

    A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the US was planning military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taleban even before last week's attacks. Niaz Naik, a former Pakistani Foreign Secretary, was told by senior American officials in mid-July that military action against Afghanistan would go ahead by the middle of October. Mr Naik said US officials told him of the plan at a UN-sponsored international contact group on Afghanistan which took place in Berlin. The wider objective, according to Mr Naik, would be to topple the Taleban regime and install a transitional government of moderate Afghans in its place - possibly under the leadership of the former Afghan King Zahir Shah. Mr Naik was told that Washington would launch its operation from bases in Tajikistan, where American advisers were already in place. He was told that Uzbekistan would also participate in the operation and that 17,000 Russian troops were on standby.Mr Naik was told that if the military action went ahead it would take place before the snows started falling in Afghanistan, by the middle of October at the latest.
    (BBC News, "US 'planned attack on Taleban'", 18 September 2001. )

    In 1998 US Vice-President Dick Cheney said in a speech to oil industrialists:
    "I cannot think of a time when we have had a region emerge as
    suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian"
    Within four years the US military had overthrown the government of Afghanistan, and the construction of the Caspian Sea oil pipeline by US oil corporations had begun.

    At the end of the day the world is teaming with natural resources, the world population has trippled in 40 years, the climate is f'ucked and the Chinese and the russians love us to pieces and the East have almost 8 thousand years of invasions led as far back as Alexander the great of the "west" worth of adoratioin to build on. There's lies, twisted truths and honest truths in this last paragraph. The easy part is telling what's what.
  12. Very well put!
  13. To, .. Olympius. Absolutely brilliant reply mate, --- well done.
  14. With todays news of the second round of the Elections being called off due to "too much corruption", I think it is safe to say that Government in Afghanistan stinks to high heaven, and what sort of signal is this "joke" sending out to the world??
  15. For general stability in the region and to give us an operating base and area of operations to conduct war against Radical Islam to prevent its spread in Pakistan