why are the rates of all war pension allowences so low ?

A

ALVIN

Guest
#1
The question is, Why are the rates of all war pension allowences so low ? I think that we veterans all accept the fact that we wont be millionairs, but considering that none of us asked to be disabled, and soley depend on this allowence, to make ends meet, and keep our families on too in most cases! In veiw of what we did for our great country of ours, war pension allowences should at least match the minimum wage rate. ------- REMEMBER --- this is a case of need, and NOT a case of greed. :cry:
 
A

ALVIN

Guest
#3
O,-- thats an easy answer, For some war pensioners who can not work, and are in recipt of unemployable suppliment allowence, have had to forfit their entire cariers, due to their disability\injury. Thats a hell of a predicament to be in, im sure that you will agree. So to compensate for loss of ernings to some extent at very least. Bringing the rates of pay to match MINIMUM WAGE is NOT a unreasonable request. REMEMBER, some war pensioners are still in their 20s :!: and have to support a family in some cases to boot, and their wifes\partner stays home as well to care for them!
 
#4
I receive a War Disablement Pension (40%), an Allowance for Lowered Standard of Occupation and Incapacity Benefit at the highest long term rate. If I lump them all together, it comes to just below the equivalent of forty hours worked per week at the minimum wage. I'm sure that if the War Disablement Pension plus allowance and just those, were raised to that equivalent, the Incapacity Benefit would disappear quicker than Elton John's hair. Of course it might do anyway when I finally have to change over to the fairer (laughs) Employment and Support Allowance some time before 2012.

Remember what they give with the one hand, they're more than happy (and willing) to take away with the other and that has just been made easier as a War Disablement Pension CAN (now) affect other benefits received. If you are in receipt of Unemployability Supplement and I take it it's you, then you must be 60% or more. I do appreciate fully that as pensioners, we are not up there with the likes of former RBS chief executives (I wish) but I do think you're trying to compare apples with pears.

I personally can't see how an hourly rate could be introduced into what is effectively a percentage based sliding scale. We do not have rates of pay, we have a pension plus various allowances or supplements and it's probably best not to confuse the two. They are as alike as Torvill and Dean though not quite as ugly.

I do think a mistake you've made is to think that anybody in HMG or even the next HMG (although they'll say they will) actually care. Bumping up our money does not create votes nor prop up a failing (failed) government. Even if they did (and they don't) any reform of the welfare state and including us will be focused on saving money, not spending quillions more.

I am on your side though you perhaps might have thought so at times and I both sympathize and empathize. I hope you've checked that you are claiming all you can ie Carer's Allowance and any other allowance that might look good with your or your significant other half's name on. Due to many employees having numpty status, not all are correctly informed by said numpties in various civil service filled benefit offices of their proper entitlement.

I suppose I'm just an old cynic with too much time on his hands (hence this load of crap) but I thought that I'd let you know I do understand, even if I don't necessarily agree with you.
 
#5
Incapacity benefit at the low rates is around £43 per week , anyone on the sick can claim this. as a War Pension percentage it should work a roundabout 30% WP per week.

The lowest War Pension you can get as a weekly payment is a 20% War Pension. This works about £29 per week. However you have to have served in the military and have attribute it to your service to claim it.

But anyone can claim capacity benefit, regardless of the reasons for claiming " example" someone with a drug problem or alcoholic, and still get the lower rate of incapacity benefit or if they've been on it longer get the higher rate around £89 per week.

A War Pension is now means tested, meaning that they will take off you pound for pound, every pound you get your for your War Pension will be a pound off your incapacity benefit.

So yes I do feel War Pensioners are hard done to.


And why should War Pensioners get a lower rate then the lowest rate of incapacity benefit?


So I agree with Alvin,why are War Pensioners on a lower rate.
 
#6
themonsstar said:
Incapacity benefit at the low rates is around £43 per week , anyone on the sick can claim this. as a War Pension percentage it should work a roundabout 30% WP per week.
Not strictly true if the Gov website is to be believed:

If you can't work because of illness or disability which started before 27 October 2008, you may be able to get Incapacity Benefit. This is a weekly payment for people who become incapable of work while under State Pension age.

Employment and Support Allowance (ESA) was introduced on 27 October 2008.

It replaces Incapacity Benefit and Income Support, paid because of an illness or disability, for new claimants only. If you already receive Incapacity Benefit, you will continue to receive it. It is intended that recipients move to the new benefit between 2009 and 2013.


A War Pension is now means tested, meaning that they will take off you pound for pound, every pound you get your for your War Pension will be a pound off your incapacity benefit.
If you would be so kind as to provide a link. The Gov website does mention something but not that it's now means tested:

If you get War Disablement Pension or another payment under the War Pension Scheme, this may affect other benefits you might get, such as Disability Living Allowance, Employment and Support Allowance, Incapacity Benefit or Income Support.

And why should War Pensioners get a lower rate then the lowest rate of incapacity benefit?

So I agree with Alvin,why are War Pensioners on a lower rate.
And there you totally lost me.
 
A

ALVIN

Guest
#7
All war pensioners, should get special higher rates of pay, to reflect and for some reconpence for the service that they have given to their country, and in doing so have unfortunetly become disabled. Further more, no war pensioner should have to beg for money from charity organisations, e.g S.A.F.F.A. for money for things like heating, NOT IN THIS COUNTRY. Yes we will remember them, and bloody well look after them! --- For life if nesecery. ---- Its as simple as that.
 
#8
When I was sent on long term sick I was given a MOD Incapactiy Pre Qualification Form which highlighted the amount of time that I was unable to work (11 months). I sent this in when I applied for ESA but it counted for nothing.

If you are MD'd, the best thing that you can do is to go and see you GP on your FIRST DAY as a civvy and get a Sick Note to say that you are to ill/disabled to work. Regardless of what your intentions are or what your DWP/GIP may be.

I didn't apply for ESA until 3 months after my discharge as I didn't know that I could do so, as a result my lack of Sick Note meant that I can't claim back until the day I was discharged.

The women on the end of the phone just kept saying that just because I can't do the same job as I did in the forces that it doesn't mean that I can't work in Civvy Street. I told her that my army job was a desk job and that had I not been to Ill to work, I'd still be doing it. I sarcasticly said that 'I haven't left a £38k a year job just so I can claim £60 a week in benefits' .

In the end I just gave up.
 
#9
I may have been wrong , if I said it was means tested, however the government statement shows, they are doing clawbacks on war pensioners.

"If you get War Disablement Pension or another payment under the War Pension Scheme, this may affect other benefits you might get, such as Disability Living Allowance, Employment and Support Allowance, Incapacity Benefit or Income Support"

I know a few veterans now, who have received a letter from the JobCentre plus,readjusting their benefits because of their war pensions.

My point was about the lowest War Pension, you can get as a weekly income is a 20% War Pension, this comes in at £29 per week, You can only get this if you were wounded or sickness, which is attributed to your service, the lowest part of incapacity benefit is around £43 pound per week.

Why is a war pension tariff lower then incapacity benefit.

However, anyone can claim incapacity benefit, but if you claim incapacity benefit, and you are a war pension, you will lose a percentage of incapacity benefit.

A war pension should be classed as an exemption,in relation to any other benefits received, this ruling also affects any civilian who is in receipt of industrial injuries benefit, who is claiming incapacity benefit will also lose percentage of their incapacity benefit.

Why should you be penalised if you're in receipt of any war pension or industrial injuries benefit after all, you can only get these benefits If you were injured in your workplace.
 
#10
I Can't speak for the other benefits that you mention, but DLA is not means tested. I get the higher rate for both components and it has no bearing on my WDP. But I think that all the other ones are balanced up against what you get by means of a War Pension etc.
 
A

ALVIN

Guest
#11
How the funk can anyone survive off £29 per week on a 20% war pension? To offer this sum to a disabled veteran is a funking INSULT :!: You might as well offer nothing at all. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ------- The minister for veterans should be funking hung :!:
 
#12
It's shite

SAP - Service Attributable Pension (this is percenatage based)
SIP - Service Invaliding Pension (this is time served based)

Someone getting a 20% DWP of £29pw would also either get a SIP or a SAP. This would be dependant on length of service as you have to have served a minimum of 5 years to get a SIP.

A SAP for an OR3 at 20% = £2806 per year £215 every 4 weeks

But if the OR3 had served 5 years then they would get a SIP instead of a SAP as the SIP is higher £2969 or £228 every 4 weeks. But you don't get both.

Plus the WDP at £29pw = £116 every 4 weeks.

So as you say, Shite.

[EDITED]

Pension Rates as of 2008-2009
Pages 9-10 and 11

SPVA DWP rates as at April 2009 -2010
Page 3
 
#13
ALVIN said:
How the funk can anyone survive off £29 per week on a 20% war pension? To offer this sum to a disabled veteran is a funking INSULT :!: You might as well offer nothing at all. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ------- The minister for veterans should be funking hung :!:
I can't believe I'm actually defending the very system I loathe but somebody needs to say something. At the moment, I'm not exactly sure which category you might fit into:

a. An escapee from an institution and/or somebody who should take his medication on a more regular basis.

b. A journo from the Watford (or any other crap town) Observer using ARRSE for a 'fishing trip'. Though I somehow don't think it's this option. Your spelling, grammar and punctuation are far too good. :roll:

c. One of this lot : Clicky

d. Some sort of protest campaigning Walt with War Disablement Pensions being the flavour of the month. So there is still some hope for April.

e. Any of the above or something totally different.

Shall I tell you how you survive on a meagre twenty-nine quid a week? Shall I? Well fcuk it, I'm going to anyway. You get off your fat lazy arse and fcuking work. That's how you manage to make ends meet. At 20% it is extremely unlikely that a (physical) disability will stop you from working, it certainly didn't stop me. If it does and I say if, there are other benefits ready to be put in place to top up your income. Before you even start to question this, this is exactly what happened to me when I became too ill to work in 1996. But by then my disability had increased from 20% to 40%. I also know of several who received the minumum 20% pension or even the lump sum and they are quite capable of holding down a fulltime job and have been doing so for years.

As War Disablement Pension now affects other benefits (apart from that magic first tenner :evil: ), things are somewhat tighter and if monies paid were ever in fact generous, then now they're certainly not. I must admit the war pensioners I know are all physically disabled and I do know that for example PTSD sufferers can be left wanting. The system ain't perfect so please don't think I'm saying that. But the system such as it is, has kept my head above water since 1992. It wasn't an easy ride either as I've had to constantly fight for what I thought was rightly mine. Even after winning back Incapacity Benefit on appeal and then taking on the Veterans Agency (or whatever they're called this week) and again winning on appeal, I've had my fair share of the system applying the buggerance factor.

IMHO I think you are doing War Disablement Pensioners no favours. You continue to make wild unreasonable demands and demands that in the cold light of day have little or no chance of ever becoming a reality. You are giving false hope to some and getting right up the fcuking noses of others. I'm not an expert but looking at your posts, neither are you. It is nice that you have my welfare (and that of other pensioners) at heart but the 'help' you are offering is help I can certainly do without. If you still feel the urge to be self-righteous, please consider saving the Amazonian Rainforest and a part of it that has hopefully no internet access.
 
#14
I was medically discharged 2006 after 20+ years of serving in the Army. I was discharged with having complex and chronic PTSD, the war pension, I received was 20% (£27 per week). I appealed this decision in 2006, and it took me until June last year, 2008 where I won my pensions appeal, and it was put up to 50% War Pension.

I haven't worked since I came out of the Army, and yes I do have mental health problems. But this doesn't mean that the organisation, what should have been looking after me can take the piss by giving me a war pension of 20%.

How can you lose your job and end up with a 20% war pension,I spoke with everyone at the time, the Armed Forces Minister, my local MP, the British Legion. Everyone who I thought could help me. I couldn't get any help from anywhere.

So yes, I personally feel the system should change and veterans should be looked after with a quality after-care service.
 
#15
To

Mr Soft & The monster

In my view you are both correct in what you say. And I add that the SPVA are a bunch of swindling penny pincher's that are there to save the Govn't money.

Their system is slow, it kicks in at the last possible minute before discharge and no matter how much evidence that either you submit, or they have access to, they only really look at the one Doctor's report that is submitted to them by a washed out GP that is earning a bit of extra crust by doing agency work.

I imagine that pretty much most ex service personnel, regardless of condition, have the drive to push themselves out to work to make up their families income. The 'Can do' attitude that the Army relies upon to make up for all the other inadequacies that we face on a daily basis, both on the front line and at home.

Which is shite.
 
#16
Why are the rates of all war pension allowences so low?

Oh Oh me me (hand in air, jumping around) I know I know.

Because the government of the day, any government of any day.
DO NOT CARE a fcuk about ex servicemen. Never did and never will.

Ask Mr Kipling (not the cake bloke. The other one)

Once you leave the service you are no longer useful and can be safely ignored and sidelined until you die.

Easy answer that one.
 
A

ALVIN

Guest
#17
mistersoft said:
ALVIN said:
How the funk can anyone survive off £29 per week on a 20% war pension? To offer this sum to a disabled veteran is a funking INSULT :!: You might as well offer nothing at all. :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: ------- The minister for veterans should be funking hung :!:
I can't believe I'm actually defending the very system I loathe but somebody needs to say something. At the moment, I'm not exactly sure which category you might fit into:

a. An escapee from an institution and/or somebody who should take his medication on a more regular basis.

b. A journo from the Watford (or any other crap town) Observer using ARRSE for a 'fishing trip'. Though I somehow don't think it's this option. Your spelling, grammar and punctuation are far too good. :roll:

c. One of this lot : Clicky

d. Some sort of protest campaigning Walt with War Disablement Pensions being the flavour of the month. So there is still some hope for April.

e. Any of the above or something totally different.

Shall I tell you how you survive on a meagre twenty-nine quid a week? Shall I? Well fcuk it, I'm going to anyway. You get off your fat lazy arse and fcuking work. That's how you manage to make ends meet. At 20% it is extremely unlikely that a (physical) disability will stop you from working, it certainly didn't stop me. If it does and I say if, there are other benefits ready to be put in place to top up your income. Before you even start to question this, this is exactly what happened to me when I became too ill to work in 1996. But by then my disability had increased from 20% to 40%. I also know of several who received the minumum 20% pension or even the lump sum and they are quite capable of holding down a fulltime job and have been doing so for years.

As War Disablement Pension now affects other benefits (apart from that magic first tenner :evil: ), things are somewhat tighter and if monies paid were ever in fact generous, then now they're certainly not. I must admit the war pensioners I know are all physically disabled and I do know that for example PTSD sufferers can be left wanting. The system ain't perfect so please don't think I'm saying that. But the system such as it is, has kept my head above water since 1992. It wasn't an easy ride either as I've had to constantly fight for what I thought was rightly mine. Even after winning back Incapacity Benefit on appeal and then taking on the Veterans Agency (or whatever they're called this week) and again winning on appeal, I've had my fair share of the system applying the buggerance factor.

IMHO I think you are doing War Disablement Pensioners no favours. You continue to make wild unreasonable demands and demands that in the cold light of day have little or no chance of ever becoming a reality. You are giving false hope to some and getting right up the fcuking noses of others. I'm not an expert but looking at your posts, neither are you. It is nice that you have my welfare (and that of other pensioners) at heart but the 'help' you are offering is help I can certainly do without. If you still feel the urge to be self-righteous, please consider saving the Amazonian Rainforest and a part of it that has hopefully no internet access.
Mr Soft, sir, No i can not belive that you are defending the war pension agency either, and no, i do not fall into any of your above catorgrys (thank god) I hate lazy people too, however, i belive the last thing a lazy person would do would be to join the British army :!: that a side, i live in the real world and i will fight the good fight for any veteran, how i can be acused of getting up any war pensioners nose, as you put it is beond belief, however i will get up government and m.o.ds nose with plesure. Do you like being poor? Do you like being supressd by the authoritys? Do you like to be looked down upon as a burden and outcast of society, swept under the carpet, and best forgotten about? some of us can not work due to our cu-cu minds, i myself have been officily classed as "demented" after serving my country! REMEMBER we never asked to be disabled, and we certanly never set the insulting pay rates! while the M.Ps of this country, who sent us to war, live it up with luxary items all claimed as expenses and payed for by the tax payer :!: If it wasent for veterans , their would not be a British government, so now you know! But please dont take my word for it ------- Notice what other veterans are saying on this subject :!: look forward to your reply :wink: ------------ So have i changed your opinion now :?:
 
#18
[quote="ALVIN]Mr Soft, sir, No i can not belive that you are defending the war pension agency either, and no, i do not fall into any of your above catorgrys (thank god) I hate lazy people too, however, i belive the last thing a lazy person would do would be to join the British army :!: that a side, i live in the real world and i will fight the good fight for any veteran, how i can be acused of getting up any war pensioners nose, as you put it is beond belief, however i will get up government and m.o.ds nose with plesure. Do you like being poor? Do you like being supressd by the authoritys? Do you like to be looked down upon as a burden and outcast of society, swept under the carpet, and best forgotten about? some of us can not work due to our cu-cu minds, i myself have been officily classed as "demented" after serving my country! REMEMBER we never asked to be disabled, and we certanly never set the insulting pay rates! while the M.Ps of this country, who sent us to war, live it up with luxary items all claimed as expenses and payed for by the tax payer :!: If it wasent for veterans , their would not be a British government, so now you know! But please dont take my word for it ------- Notice what other veterans are saying on this subject :!: look forward to your reply :wink: ------------ So have i changed your opinion now :?:[/quote]

Alvin I suppose I’m (sort of) defending the system as it’s all we have left but there's sadly a lot less left of it than there used to be. If nobody defends it, the bugger might disappear without trace taking our pensions with it. :( Even before the present political numpties came to power, the Tories were already tickling about with it. Labour were all too happy to carry on with the tickling and over the years, thresholds have been raised meaning fewer people are able to claim the extra allowances that can really make a difference. Now we find that apart from that magic tenner (so that’s obviously what they think we’re worth), the rest of the war pension is now taken into account. And you’re looking to them for more money? They are just biding their time ready to leave the place neat and tidy for the next batch of numpties. You ain’t going to get bugger all extra out of this lot and unless Cameron suddenly suffers from some sort of guilty conscience, you ain’t going to get bugger all extra out of him either.

As for the categories, you must fall under ‘e’ as you really are something totally different, as is your train of thought regarding war pensions and war pensioners. We’re not quite singing from the same hymn sheet but aren’t basically that different except that perhaps over the years, I’ve grown to be a bit more realistic. I’ve also fought so long that I must admit, I have at times just given up. It’s bad enough being ill but making yourself worse to (possibly) gain a few extra pennies sometimes just isn’t worth the hassle. If by lazy, you mean the sick, lame and lazy that HMG are trying to get back to work, then I’m with you there. But as a former REME Air Tech, there are some in the past, who have questioned my work output. Of course I didn’t think I was lazy, I knew I was just pacing myself or so I used to (frequently) say.

I think it’s all very well being up for fight but (I bet you’ll call ME lazy now) there has to be even the remotest chance of winning. It’s no good racing off like some sort of demented Chuckle Brother, making wild and unreasonable demands. I do think that collectively war pensioners have a chance of achieving something. But this must be carefully coordinated and any fight must be with those at the very top, not nipping at the heels of some lowly civil servant. I really think there should be an Association of War Pensioners. I don’t think there’s a need for a separate Association of Black and Asian War Pensioners but if they want to go their own way, then so be it. I’m not being ungrateful as the RBL and others put in a lot of work on our behalf but I think that we are more than capable of getting our own message across but as I’ve said, collectively and from within an officially recognized association.

You (briefly) got up my nose and I do know I wasn’t alone but I’m sure we all do at times which is why a former SSM of mine was nicknamed ‘Vic’ and he thoroughly deserved it. I’m sorry but not all war pensioners are poor. Some are there’s no denying it but there are those who use a war pension to top up a wage or a salary. Now if you’re saying that the pensions aren’t enough and the allowances aren’t enough (which you’ve previously said) then I do agree and if you’re saying that it’s scandalous that some war pensioners are caught in the benefit trap then I also agree.

Being suppressed by the authorities? A burden to society and a social outcast? It might be your own personal experience but it’s certainly not mine or any other war pensioner that I know. They might feel hard done by and somewhat miffed as do I but I do think this is the sort of thing that lets down your argument. It’s as if it’s been pulled off the front page of the Sun and if toned down somewhat, would have motorways bunged solid with outrage buses courtesy of the Daily Mail and its readers. Say it exactly how you feel ok but I do think that sort of talk doesn’t help the (or your) cause.

But all that aside, HMG are a bunch of robbing bastards, we as pensioners don’t get enough money but we’ll have to agree to disagree by how much. We each have our own particular way of doing things but it is a common cause. I hear what others are saying and some of those can’t agree either which is why I feel that an Association of War Pensioners could be a way forward.

Have you changed my opinion?
I don’t think so but you’re not getting up my nose so often though I still don’t want your babies. :wink:
 
A

ALVIN

Guest
#19
MISTERSOFT. O.K, thanks for your reply, points taken. The "fighters" amongst us only have our best interests at heart for all our comrades in arms! We may be "DEMENTED" but we know what we are doing within our comunity is right and just, and we will protect those not able to defend themselfs. Take care, and god bless you sir. :wink:
 
#20
I initially claimed, and was awarded higher rate DLA,and was informed by them that I would be better off claiming War Disablement Pension.

Although I was awarded higher rate DLA, when I claimed WDP I was awarded 20% initially (as was themonsstar) which was upgraded to 50% on appeal.

I was told that one can claim either WDP or DLA , but not both - however one could put in a claim for the care element of DLA.

The local council discount £10 of WDP for rent/council tax purposes and the rest is treated (as the council official said) as 'unearned income', DLA is totally discounted.
 

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