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WHY ARE THE CCF NOT ALLOWED TO ENLIST NCO ADULT INSTRUCTORS

#1
Can someone please tell me why the CCF are not allowed to have NCO AI's?. I have worked with the ACF and the CCF and it seems ludicrous not to allow AI's in the CCF. Correct me if I am right but subject to CRB clearance the ACF have the autonomy to decide themselves at County level who they want to take on as AI's or not. So, why cant a Contingent Commander also be allowed to make this same decision?. There are many potential CCF NCO AI's out there who I know for a fact that if given the chance to make the decision for themselves every Contingent Commander would enlist NCO AI's. Do the powers that be not understand that cadets find it easier to speak to NCO's rather than Officers? So why such a stupid rule? If the excuse is 'well thats why we have the CTT'sfor that' well I am sorry because that just dosent wash! As good as the CTT's are they are not actual members of that Contingent. They are liable to postings, transfers, mobilisations etc at any minute and the Contingents need NCO AI's from that are locals from that area. It just seems silly that a school can have it's own armoury with L98's, number 8 rifles and amunition but cannot make that basic decision whether to be able to enlist NCO AI's if they want to.
 
#2
The CCF were always a weird organisation. Although the cadets I came across were good. Do they still have lance corporals in their RAF sections? In the ATC we had adult warrant officers. The ACF used to have adult sgts if I remember rightly. Which I thought was a bit daft when you got an overlap with cadet ranks. What's a CTT is that what we called a Civillian instructor in the Corps?
 
#4
so you saying that the CCF has Cadets and then Adult Instructors of Officer ranks only ?
no Adult Sergeants at all ? first time i have heard of this
 
#5
Thats right, no adult NCO's. And, wait for this: from experience I know that if you are a teacher you can become a commissioned officer with absolutely no previous training, niether militiary or civillian whatsoever!! You go to Brigade, 20 mins later you are a 2nd Lt!!!! I have seen it 6 or 7 times to date!!! On the other hand, if you rock the boat like I did you can get sent to Coventry in a very big way. When I was in the ACF I reported a high ranking officer who was getting shall we say very familiar with the 15 and 16 yr old girls. I reported it, it got whitewashed and I was passed over so much as a punishment that I resigned. I was told that 'you will never get a job in cadets in this area ever again'. Just because I exposed a potential paedo. He is noe a half colonel!!!!! As a result the interview for my CCF commission was pre-judged even before I got there. The Brigadier and the ACF County Commandant had already pre-cooked up a feeble excuse not to Commission me. Then when my Contingent Commander tried to get me uniformed my making me a joint school staff instructor then that was blocked for no reasonable excuse too. What do you think of the way I was treated? The situation is that I am now within a CCF, with an 'off the books rank' working within the school system only. Insured under the school, CRB cleared and have had to keep quiited where I am because after 5 years since I exposed the potential paedo they still have it in for me!!!!!
 
#7
Would be tempting to tip the Papers off about said activity - will cause a sh1t storm but at least the "truth will out"

Question you need to ask is:

Which is more important?

Your hobby or the safety of children?

Rincewind
 
#8
In answer to a previous question, it was explained to me that the ACF used to enlist AI's direct as a WO2, but having 21 year old WO's who were sh!te at drill compared to what a CSM should be like as considered a bit muppet-like.

Regards,

Rab
 
#9
Unlike the ACF many of the bigger CCF's in schools have an ex-reg WO2 doing almost a full time PSI equivalent role, so there isn't the need to have as many adult NCO instructors as the ACF who (in theory) share the administrative burden at Det level with the OC. Many ACF units only have 1 officer because their numbersare relatively low, some school CCFs number more than a hundred and so have a CO and Coy/Pl Cmdrs drawn from the school's staff. Some CCF CO's are ex mil anyway and are the school Bursar or equivalent and carry accross their rank into the CCF as part of that job.
 
#10
Is the general consensus among people on this board that most ACF detachments have an Officer running them?

Its certainly not what i've encountered.
 
#12
Nope. as an SI 15 years ago several dets were run solely by adult NCOs. Usually SSI or SMI, But as an SI of only 9 months standing I was offered a detachment but declined it as I could not spare the 2 nights a week to run it until I got extra staff (which would not have been forthcoming for quite a while)
 
#13
walt_of_the_walts said:
Nope. as an SI 15 years ago several dets were run solely by adult NCOs. Usually SSI or SMI, But as an SI of only 9 months standing I was offered a detachment but declined it as I could not spare the 2 nights a week to run it until I got extra staff (which would not have been forthcoming for quite a while)
Im in exactly the same situation, but am an SI of two weeks. Ive accepted it though, its only one night a week and I love the job! It just seemed that reading the other posts that people think that subalterns are running the majority of detachments, when I only know of two or three cases.
 
#14
George65 said:
The CCF were always a weird organisation. Although the cadets I came across were good. Do they still have lance corporals in their RAF sections? In the ATC we had adult warrant officers.

Yeah. Weird all right. I shared a camp with CCF RAF section and insisted that my Senior Badged cadets were eqivalent to there Lance Corporals (my sqn has a lot of senior cadets). That annoyed them!

Adult Seargeants have now been introduced into the ATC, allthough the uptake in some wings is still pretty patchy. Lots in Sussex Wing, none I have seen or heard of in Surrey wing.

The idea would seem to have been borrowed almost entirely from the ACF, as you do 4 years as Adult Sgt, 4 more as Adult F/Sgt, 4 more gets you to AWO. The idea being that you dont get 20/21 year old AWOs in a mess full of 20 year men on camp. What will happen is it will sort out those who want to be Officers from those who want to indulge in inverted snobbery and bear grudges for ever and ever( I know there not all like that but some WO2/WO1 types fall into that square bashing, Victorian anachronism, contribute little of any use, if anything and are quite frankily boorish oafs!)
 
#15
Xplosiverab said:
In answer to a previous question, it was explained to me that the ACF used to enlist AI's direct as a WO2, but having 21 year old WO's who were sh!te at drill compared to what a CSM should be like as considered a bit muppet-like.

Regards,

Rab
That's not quite correct old chap. The system used to have SIs and SMIs but no SSIs (the rank was added sometime in the 1960s). Not sure when RSMI came in (but that's only a local rank anyway).
 
#16
Sorry to take this slightly off message (having probs with the hamster wheel in the whirry box thing).

ACF AND CCF. What support do you ACTUALLY want? I've tried organising central weekends, instructors to turn up on your weekends or training nights (this REALLY hurts since we need the same qualified people to conduct our training). There seems to be little (NO) interest in TA support.

What help can the TA really give, bearing in mind we still have to function (and with people on Ops it can be tricky). Do you need or want help? A few years ago I organised training for AI's and Offr's, solid, basic 7 Q's and how to give orders and a 'guilt free' environment for honing basic skills (with very experienced/Ops proven instructors). Take up was at best patchy (appalling bearing in mind they were there anyway for the exercise organised for their cadets), and the attitude was 'We don't need this, we don't want to know'.

On the basis that this was a 'one off', unfortunate experience, what support do you think is valuable and achievable? How can it best be delivered?
 
#17
gung_hobo said:
Sorry to take this slightly off message (having probs with the hamster wheel in the whirry box thing).

ACF AND CCF. What support do you ACTUALLY want? I've tried organising central weekends, instructors to turn up on your weekends or training nights (this REALLY hurts since we need the same qualified people to conduct our training). There seems to be little (NO) interest in TA support.

What help can the TA really give, bearing in mind we still have to function (and with people on Ops it can be tricky). Do you need or want help? A few years ago I organised training for AI's and Offr's, solid, basic 7 Q's and how to give orders and a 'guilt free' environment for honing basic skills (with very experienced/Ops proven instructors). Take up was at best patchy (appalling bearing in mind they were there anyway for the exercise organised for their cadets), and the attitude was 'We don't need this, we don't want to know'.

On the basis that this was a 'one off', unfortunate experience, what support do you think is valuable and achievable? How can it best be delivered?
I myself would certainly be up for this, training on current Mil skills, Orders Process, FCOs, most fieldcraft, Weapon familiarisations, there is lot that can be covered also for Officers specific training, the best way IMHO is to contact EX regulars and TAs as they have will been in a while and knows the score etc and importantly knows the right people. if i was in charge i would have no hesitation in acceptiing any Regular and TA help.
 
#18
As a TA, I have been asked to help out on an ATC/CCF run course for all service cadets and found the SIs & officers very hard working, I also found them very interested to learn they (ACF/ATC/CCF/SCC/RMCdts) are allowed and I can say very welcomed on to Brigade training team run courses (see LDRTC web site on Army net for courses). And on the point of CCF NCO Sis, when I was teaching in a school in Kent which had a CCF unit, as a TA and teacher I helped out has an SI (And no I’m not on the dark side)
 
#20
semper said:
gung_hobo said:
Sorry to take this slightly off message (having probs with the hamster wheel in the whirry box thing).

ACF AND CCF. What support do you ACTUALLY want? I've tried organising central weekends, instructors to turn up on your weekends or training nights (this REALLY hurts since we need the same qualified people to conduct our training). There seems to be little (NO) interest in TA support.

What help can the TA really give, bearing in mind we still have to function (and with people on Ops it can be tricky). Do you need or want help? A few years ago I organised training for AI's and Offr's, solid, basic 7 Q's and how to give orders and a 'guilt free' environment for honing basic skills (with very experienced/Ops proven instructors). Take up was at best patchy (appalling bearing in mind they were there anyway for the exercise organised for their cadets), and the attitude was 'We don't need this, we don't want to know'.

On the basis that this was a 'one off', unfortunate experience, what support do you think is valuable and achievable? How can it best be delivered?
I myself would certainly be up for this, training on current Mil skills, Orders Process, FCOs, most fieldcraft, Weapon familiarisations, there is lot that can be covered also for Officers specific training, the best way IMHO is to contact EX regulars and TAs as they have will been in a while and knows the score etc and importantly knows the right people. if i was in charge i would have no hesitation in acceptiing any Regular and TA help.
Blue cap and Gung Hobo,

I fully concur. We in the ATC have patrol competitions that my cadets cannot enter as no-one knows the orders process. I would love to teach them, but have only a got a vague idea from what i have picked up from from scrounged pamphlets and other training material, so I don't know whether I'm doing it right or not. I can barely remember what I was taught 15 years ago, and don't know if its still current or correct.

Gung Hobo, PM me, Train me. I'm up for it! :D
 

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