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Why are some countries so much more corrupt than others?

Oh yes, in the west midlands, there were a husband and wife team of councillors, when not in council, it transpired, that they were swingers, and advertised their body's for threesomes, Etc for photo shoots, all this took place in the upstairs rooms, over the village café, they got exposed in a Sunday newspaper, and from a contacts magazine, but beacause it did not impeach, in any way, on their council duty's, they could not be dismissed, however beacause of the nation wide publicity, they both "Resigned"

They were by reputation, a pair of very un-savoury character's, and universally disliked in council chambers. They stood for two conservative wards. In a large village not a million miles away from Wolverhampton.
I’m confused. Were their swinging activities a vehicle for corrupt favours, or was it just too embarrassing to continue in post?
 
Anywhere the Catholic church is strong seems to have higher levels of corruption ....Spain, Italy, the whole of south America and so on.
 

endure

GCM
India only orange? The place is a byword for corruption. Buckshee (sp?) anyone.

We used to have a formal procedure for entering the country. The cabin manager would write off a bottle of scotch, stick it in a duty free bag and give it to the Captain. The Captain would then present himself and ship’s docs at immigration and forget to pick up “his” duty free placed at his feet.

A quick glance from the incorruptible immigration chap and stamp-stamp-stamp all over the paperwork, a nod and off we all toddled, minus a duty free bag.

Westland did for that and the dweebs from Corporate Governance got involved.

It now takes 3 hours to get a crew into the country.


Tying up to the offshore buoy at Port Harcourt (Nigeria) used to see 3 customs officers arrive on a launch with large empty kitbags.

An hour later they were on their way back ashore with around £1K's worth of whiskey, cheese and soap in those kitbags.

The alternative was to swing around the buoy for a week at $10,000 a day waiting customs clearance so we could start to load cargo.
 

Bob65

War Hero
Anywhere the Catholic church is strong seems to have higher levels of corruption ....Spain, Italy, the whole of south America and so on.

Is it higher or is it just different? We'd call giving a leg up to a relative nepotism and say that's a form of corruption. They would say helping your relatives is the right thing to do, and a weird system involving school ties, funny handshakes and golf, now that's corruption.
 
I’m confused. Were their swinging activities a vehicle for corrupt favours, or was it just too embarrassing to continue in post?
They were forced to resign, as their shenanigans were too embarrassing for the city fathers, and were bringing the kremlin ( Town hall) into disrepute. Their constituent's demanded their resignations..
 

NSP

LE
Tying up to the offshore buoy at Port Harcourt (Nigeria) used to see 3 customs officers arrive on a launch with large empty kitbags.

An hour later they were on their way back ashore with around £1K's worth of whiskey, cheese and soap in those kitbags.

The alternative was to swing around the buoy for a week at $10,000 a day waiting customs clearance so we could start to load cargo.
Ditto the coastguard on Sirri Island in the PG. Every morning when we're anchored in the lee of the island out he'd come in his little dinghy with the DShK tripod-mounted in it and the three squaddies that crewed it. Up the ladder he'd come and then up to the bridge he'd go for a coffee and to tell the old man that our permits were not in order - right up until the 200 carton of fags came out, at which point alles in ordnung and have a nice day. Same time tomorrow, then...
 
Oh how I laughed when Karl, my easty-beasty colleague (Hungarian), proclaimed that he loved the UK because it was a beacon of honesty, and not corrupt like his motherland. The president openly gives huge public building contracts to his family members, apparently.

I explained to him that our 'leaders' do exactly the same, but in a more heavily disguised manner. Insider trading, Gordon Brown selling off our gold to his friends when the price was rock bottom, Capita, Serco, G4S, Arriva, Stagecoach et al being awarded lucrative contracts despite a history of dismal performance, including the COVID testing 'issues'.

At least the President of Hungaria (Karl raged when we called it that) is an honest thief.
 

endure

GCM
Ditto the coastguard on Sirri Island in the PG. Every morning when we're anchored in the lee of the island out he'd come in his little dinghy with the DShK tripod-mounted in it and the three squaddies that crewed it. Up the ladder he'd come and then up to the bridge he'd go for a coffee and to tell the old man that our permits were not in order - right up until the 200 carton of fags came out, at which point alles in ordnung and have a nice day. Same time tomorrow, then...


Don't talk about a Suez transit :eek:
 

NSP

LE
Don't talk about a Suez transit :eek:
Haven't had the pleasure as yet. Was dicked for one and pre-briefed on what to expect, though. Egypt is in Africa, though, and as anyone who's been there knows, everywhere on that continent is riddled with graft.
 

endure

GCM
Haven't had the pleasure as yet. Was dicked for one and pre-briefed on what to expect, though. Egypt is in Africa, though, and as anyone who's been there knows, everywhere on that continent is riddled with graft.


Cartons of Marlboro all round. If you're lucky enough to join/leave a ship there you have to buy your passport back off the agent.

I always used to put it down on expenses as 'bribe to agent'. Pissed the office off no end :mrgreen:
 
Hi all,

It's quite odd that some countries are so much more corrupt than others, you could draw a line across Europe and the northern countries such as Germany, Scandinavia etc seem to be methodical and precise in their business (apart from the car air pollution fiasco). The southern countries, however, are notorious for their corruption - the Italian mafia and the joke of Berlusconi and his bunga parties, the Greek politicians stealing millions. I only need to say 'Albania' for people to immediately think of feral gangsters and crime. There certainly seems to be a north/south divide in Europe as far as corruption goes.

It doesn't stop there either, Russia takes corruption to a new height as it's openly encouraged by the state (I used to date a Russian girl and her father bribed a policeman after speeding). I'm less familiar with how things work in Asia/China.

Perhaps the most curious observation one can make is the Americas. South America has far more natural mineral wealth than the north and yet it consists of crackpot regimes and poor countries, whereas the north is an industrial powerhouse. I think this is due to the fact that south America inherited southern European corruption and government systems and the north inherited the British system and protestant work ethic.

Why are some countries corrupt and others not? In my mind it must be due to cultural and historical factors. What was it that turned the countries of southern Europe into nefarious criminal ghettos and Scandinavia into sophisticated and law abiding countries?

Is it because they're vibrant?
 
Within the UK is there anything lower and more corrupt than a local authority planning officer...?

The old man joined local government after his Regular service and was glad to take early retirement 15 years later. Both of his bosses were corrupt. The head honcho had a little scam going whereby planning applications at shops and supermarkets would get delayed unless appropriate compensation was paid for the sale to him or his wife of an improperly secured bottle of bleach or somesuch. His immediate boss just took the brown envelopes of used notes.

The former had to retire early after his second drink driving conviction and the latter was convicted, but due to the lack of Proceeds of Crime legislation, kept his ill-gotten gains for when he got out.*

*He also kept his RN CPO's pension too.
 
Back in the day there was a scandal in SA where a minister awarded his son in law a contract to build around a thousand outdoor toilets with water and sewage reticulation, all equipped with a wash basin and running water. Those toilets were all built and are in use today in a township. You can see them driving north from Cape Town to Bloemfontein. The cost of the contract was ZAR five million. You can walk up to the infrastructure, touch it to make sure it exists and even take a dump if you so wish, flushing with running water and wash your hands afterwards.

That ZAR five million contract awarded to a family member came close to toppling the government of the day.

Today billions of ZAR simply disappear, a lot of it traceable and most folks know exactly which ministers are hoovering it up (all of them). It doesn't even raise an eyebrow, never mind anything getting done about it unless the perperator has somehow fallen out of favour with the party apparatchiks, in which case you may get a shrug and a token admonishment. Under the current regime it's just accepted that the big cheeses and pretty much everyone below them in govt will have their fingers in the cookie jar.
 
Within the UK is there anything lower and more corrupt than a local authority planning officer...?
There's a scandal brewing involving Directors of a NHS Trust in London, who were pushing for a site to be closed and disposed of for housing...great location, great views etc...it seems that two of the directors (one a NED) are very closely connected to property developers brought in by these directors to 'consult' for the trust. The deal could run into the high tens of millions...
 
There's a scandal brewing involving Directors of a NHS Trust in London, who were pushing for a site to be closed and disposed of for housing...great location, great views etc...it seems that two of the directors (one a NED) are very closely connected to property developers brought in by these directors to 'consult' for the trust. The deal could run into the high tens of millions...

Time for an anonymous tip off to Private Eye...
 
Surprising how many of them gravitate to jobs which tap Government/Charity of one description or another and our neo marxists remind me a little of Africa, where a state job is the goal for any aspiring middle class family and the payrolls of most africans states is massively inflated..

The evolution of what is defined as a Class enemy, is now anyone who believes in smaller government.
For some reason that reminds me of retired British Army Senior Officers - though it does miss out Livery companies from the list
 
Corruption exists in all countries. It’s just a question of scale.

The UK in terms of scale is at the lower end. I’d suggest halfway between the middle and the bottom of the scale.

I spent twenty years working for a local authority and while corruption was a minor problem, it did happen.

Some building control officers were definitely at it. The rewards for “helping out” ranged from a day out at the races or a weekend golfing to cash exchanging hands. Those at the lower levels of the ladder would cop a bit of secret overtime working on the tools for a contractor at weekends.

Since the early eighties, local authorities have been compelled to put certain activities up for tender for private companies to bid for the work. That means that each local authority had to set up an evaluation and monitoring element to decide who won the the work and then ensure that everything went ok for the duration of the contract. Although it could never be proven, some people did very nicely out of that and although it’s over twenty years since I was last there, I know it still goes on.

Then of course there’s planning. Corruption in planning takes place at the top of the hierarchy of local authorities with very senior officers and Councillors involved in influencing decisions in certain ways. A good example was a friend of mine who sat on a planning committee was offered an all expenses paid weekend trip to a hotel with numerous luxury amenities in Scotland for an in depth briefing on a planning application. He turned the offer down.

After I left the employment of the local authority, I set up a small building firm and sub contracted a few building jobs airside at Heathrow. I know for a fact that the people I subbed the work from spent most of their time entertaining various senior managers from lots of companies that operated airside. The first question asked when looking around was, “who’s the budget holder.”

I was on site once when someone In middle management from the company chatting to me mentioned that he was surprised at the amount of money they were paying for my services. I suggested if he found the senior guy who played a lot of golf, he would quickly suss out why my fee’s were so high. A few days later on site again, he told me he had made some confidential inquiries and there were two of them.

Looking at recent events with the coronavirus pandemic, there are various snippets of certain companies who appear to have links to either government officials including ministers or to advisors to the government being given in some instances, multi million pound contracts without any tendering process or indeed any process at all taking place to check these companies out. The work is simply handed over to them.

So it seems, corruption is alive and kicking in the UK.
I dont know which authority you worked for but I am a consultant for a West Midlands county council and very little of that goes on these days.

A few years ago I worked on a £ multi million development project. The developer invited me to a celebration meal post signing of the contracts. I was told in no uncertain terms that attending it would breach the anti corruption legislation so I could not go (the Bribery Act, 2010 as continuingly updated). At a further meeting the developers gave me a bottle of wine instead. As per my contract I had to declare the fact on the Interests Register. I was told I either had to return it or donate it to the office Christmas raffle.

You may think it is easy to get around by just not declaring something on the Interests Register. A senior officer involved in the management of the council's land estate "forgot" to declare his brother in laws interest in a company that had an overage in a parcel of land that the council acquired. After an internal audit (and they do alot of digging into capital projects) the interest was discovered, senior officer suspended and then dismissed for gross misconduct.

In essence, corruption may happen but certainly where I work, by applying the law they make it far harder for it to happen. They even have trackers on some plant and machinery and monitor mileage to ensure the weekend moonlighting you referred to is hard to get away with.
 
Germany in the early 70s. Coming off night shift, we were followed for some distance by the Polizei who drew up next to us when we got home. Driver was told one of his rear lights wasn't working but if you give me 10 marks it's all forgotten.

Some time later, one guy drove up and Umleitung (road works blocking the road) rather than go the 10k round. Again, give me 10 marks and all is forgotten.

Low level corruption maybe.
 

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