why am i being offered!?anthrax jab.

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by the_common_rif_raf, Oct 2, 2002.

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  1. Why am i being offered the anthrax jab,well ok its obvious why! - but what im getting at is why offered?

    Why am i not being told too
    go and get it like every other jab were given in the army?

    Call me  paranoid but is it so that when its all over,if we have been damaged by these jabs the government have a get out clause?--we didnt make them take it they had a choice.

    So what do we go for, alleged gulf syndrome(hotly denied by mod)but not by gulf 1 veterans still suffering alleged effects by having these jabs or risk a nice big dose of anthrax and death.

    By offering it as a choice the mod are protected from repocusions either way--------- die from anthrax infection--we offered them protection but they didnt take it.    

    Suffer from the effects of whats called gulf syndrome------------well we didnt make them take it ,it was there choice.

    If mod are so confident that its the best thing for us and no risk, why arnt we being told to take it accross the board as with all our other immunisations  ???
     
  2. Interesting that you should ask.

    I believe (and don't quote me on this) that that same question has been asked at higher levels, and there is a plan to stop treating the anthrax jab as a special case and to incorporate it into the routine vaccinations that everyone has.

    You're quite right that it was originally offered on a voluntary basis because of the misgivings a lot of people had taking it after the Gulf. The idea is that your MO should explain all the potential risks, and you can then make an informed decision.

    As for how safe it actually is, I've asked various knowledgable doctor friends whether they would take it and the majority say yes. It's not a new vaccine - sheep farmers have been taking it for 50 odd years! One or two are a little reticent, saying that they 'd like to see more trials, but none of them were pharmacists. The official view is that it's entirely safe, and I must say based on what I've seen there appears to be little evidence to the contrary.
     
  3. I had it first time round for GW1 along with Plague, whooping cough and assorted others, I think all on the same day, add this to NAPs which we took for about 2 months.

    I can report no ill effects, my baby has only one head, although a number of soldiers were very ill for a couple of days after the jabs.

    I have yet to see any thread on this site regarding Gulf War Syndrome.  It is quite stange that the vast majority of aledged sufferers seem to have been so far back that they sent thier laundry forward.

    This seems to indicate that the jabs were fine but being a REMF is more dangerouse than being a "teeth arm".

    Having seen what happens if you fail to take your piils etc. as ordered, a Crab officer refused to take his anti-malarial (he mistakenly believed that it damaged his liver) in Cambodia and died of Cerebral Malaria, I am a great believer in following orders and actually trusting the Medics (strange concept).

    I do not believe that jabs should ever be voluntary.
     
  4. The anthrax jab has indeed been used by tanners and sheep farmers for many years, with no more evidence of serious side-effects than any other vaccine.

    If it comes to being offered I would suggest you take it.  Having done some recent reading it would seem that any decent weapons grade anthrax, delivered carefully, or simply laid down as a carpet (it'll stay there for ages, check out the island in Jockland, only inhabitable best part of 50 years since we anthraxed it), could seriously spoil your day.

    Contact anthrax isn't too bad, but if inhaled (correct my doctors), by the time symptoms are evident, things aren't going too well for you.  In fact you'll probably die.
    Especially if it's been 'hardened' against anti-biotics.  Better for the immune system to be given a kick start prior to you being infected unawares.

    Oh, and anthrax isn't that dangerous comparatively it would seem.  If Madas has managed to get holg of any of the Soviet bio-weaponeers who were involved in the development of recombinant pathogens it's good night for all of us.  These nasties (if they have been developed, and since the stuff I saw was open source, that's likely) mess around inside you to bring on accelerated cases of MS and other untreatable ailments.  Nice.

    If Anthrax jabs can help, then take them.  The US didn't give them last time round, not because they were unsafe but because they couldn't procure enough doses and therefore felt morally wrong to give to some and not others.  (That said, they would all have ended up in rear areas anyway as does most of the kit, so why bother!!!)
     
  5. My thanks to all, i rest a little easier :) At lest i did until you brought up all the russky nasties!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    GEE THANKS
     
  6. As with most biological and chemical weapons (but particularly bio), producing reasonable quantities is easy. Any decent degree level biology student and the facilities of an average university lab could cultivate and grow enough anthrax to theoretically wipe out the City of London.

    "Less than one millionth of a gram is invariably fatal within five days to a week after exposure. According to an estimate by the US Congress's Office of Technology Assessment, 100 kilograms of anthrax, released from a low-flying aircraft over a large city on a clear, calm night, could kill one to three million people". (Federation of American Scientists website).

    The problem though, is one of dissemination. If you were brave enough (or stupid enough) to walk through a shopping centre say with an aerosol can spraying anthrax into the crowd, you'd kill a lot of them. Put it into an artillery shell and fire it at Allied troops, however, and the explosion will kill a fair amount of the spores before they get into the wind. It's not an insurmountable probelm unfortunately, but its arguably the hard part about being a convincing despot.

    The Japanese cult (Aum) who released Sarin nerve agent into the Tokyo Underground in 1995 had successfully produced a very high quality agent - what let them down was their dissemination technique. They place plastic bags filled with liquid at strategic points on the subway, then stabbed holes in them with umbrellas to allow the liquid to 'offgas' (ie vapourise into what we know of as 'nerve gas'). These holes were not very efficient at allowing the liquid to offgas, and as a result only 12 people died. Had they managed to create some sort of aerosol device, or had they even just ripped the bags open and sprayed liquid around, they would probably have killed hundreds!!

    Anyway - I'm rambling. Hope none of this is too scary.

    To lighten the subject a little, check out the following website - just don't let Saddam find it!!

    http://www.villainsupply.com/
     
  7. Love the site!  I now have a white cat, swivel chair, self influcted scar over my eye and a daemonic laugh! AH HA HA HA HAAAAAAA!!!!      ;D
     
  8. Anthrax nothing wrong with Anthrax jabs.I had one at camp Flashart in 1990  (Al Jubayal) and theres nothing wrong with me.

    If you don't believe come and watch me playing golf with my uncle Napolean and his talking cuttlefish, Trevor

    Bibble
     
  9. I, for one, will be having mine (very shortly too) :eek:

    If it all goes horribly wrong, it'll be a dámn sight easier sueing the MoD than Saddam Inc. ;D
     
  10. I had the GW1 jab set (yummy) and obviously was really looking forward to the next lot so made sure I was front of the queue.

    "Some localised reaction is normal" = expect an egg on your arm that hurts like hell for 5 days

    "May get flu-like symptoms" = like death warmed up but without the warmed up bit :-[  Don't be fooled if things are fine for 48 hours because the bus is coming round the corner and you ain't gonna stop it flattening you.

    Summary: not at all nice but probably better than the real thing.  Can't wait for the next round.   :-/

    CAMR make the UK version (AVA).  It has been given to vets since License was granted (1971).  This is primarily to stop cutaneous infection by Baccilus Anthraxis, rather than help you against inhaled spores.  Vets tend not to breathe in whole sheep, you see.  It is made up of Anthrax antigens (alum precipitated sterile fluid) in a 0.125ml solution.  It has the yummy preservative Thiomersal in it, which causes a great hangover.  The truth is that nobody really knows if it will help or not, but the recommendation is to take it, since it probably will help. CAMR reckon you have 900% better protection against inhaled spores following their jab, but this is based on their assumptions and models since it is unethical to actually try this on humans (even French humans, apparently).

    These folk don't reckon it's much use:

    The Antimicrobics and Infectious Disease Newsletter (Elsevier Science) 2000 expressed concerns over the vaccine, as a credible BW defence, in 2000. The question is simple:

    "Are anthrax vaccines a reliable method of protecting against Bacillus anthracis BW? Not necessarily. Although vaccines can protect against accidental exposure of relatively small doses of anthrax spores that infect skin wounds, such as encountered occasionally in meat processing, it remains unproven whether anthrax vaccines will actually protect against a lethal aerosol dose of inhaled anthrax spores of the weaponized variety that are used as BW agents. This is especially true if mixtures of BW agents are used instead of single BW agents"

    So there you go.  Your choice, so do some research.

    Some quite good info here:

    http://www.bag.admin.ch/biosafety/aktuell/e/GB.htm

    I'm just off to cough up some more blood and black gew.
     
  11. There's a similar thread running on PPrune.  One of the posts expresses concern about SQUALENE, apparently contained within the vaccination which may affect nerve impulses.  Any info appreciated.
     
  12. Hmmmmmm Anthrax, maybe I'm just gullible but it never did me any long term damage last time (at least not yet).  I recently enquired with my MO about vaccinations and got the blah blah blah normal info, I then went on to ask about the other "Stack" of vaccinations I received in the Gulf.  Funnily enough, I was told that the ISO container that carried al the cental records of the vaccinations given was lost, anyone else heard that one?

    Needless to say, I'll be getting the Jab this time round once I've managed to sign out a machete and cut through all the red tape!!!

    PS.  See ya in the sand!
     
  13. Funny old thing that. when I joined 2 UK Civ Div, my new quack requested all of my old military med records and was told!!!!!!

    They have been lost during the move from BAOR to the UK.

    Nothing to do with the million and one nasties that the b*stards stuck in me during Gulf War 1 of course!

    On the up side, I came out on a War Disability Pension, which I am now going to try to get increased (oh dear, my poor knees) and I am wondering whether they will miraculously reappear in order to show what treatment I was or wasn't given during my stint in.

    Especially the bit where I claimed that they drugged me with Sodium Pentathol to make me divulge the whereabouts of the Squadron Flag (it’s in my loft by the way) and injected spider eggs into my eyes.