Why a Sikh Regiment in our Army is NOT such a good idea

Seabass,

I'm sorry, but I SERIOUSLY doubt that you're Sikh (moderate or otherwise), the way you've presented your original post, sounds more like a pamphlet for the RSS or VHP (India's answer to the BNP). What Sikh would equate being Amritdhari with being an extremist? And regarding the rest of your list, what a load of tripe, there are extremist's in EVERY community, but the majority of Sikhs in this country are proud to be British, as am I. In fact I couldn't even see myself living in India, the UK is my home and I'm proud of it.

Gurudwara's receive their 'funding' from the national lottery? This is news to me, seeing how the community gives donations of food (for the free kitchen) and money for the upkeep of the temple, and for weddings, etc large donations are made to help cover costs.

From the use of your words, I'd say that you're most likely of south Asian origin (most likely Indian), and most likely part of the UK branch of the RSS, or an affiliated organisation. So I'd say it is YOU, that has the agenda.

I welcome your response.

By the way, I'm not Amritdhari, I've actually never worn a turban, yet I support a British Sikh regiment because I think this is the best way to tap into the Sikh warrior spirit, does this make an extremist?
 
Redshaggydog said:
I'll tell you what fella, so as not to bore everyone else, if you have a problem lets take it off line.

Yes, lets meet up and have a fight; your playground just after school?

Just go away, right away, unless of course you actually have something to *add*?

Why not start by responding to HSChaggars post above - and by the way, have you twigged that NOBODY is agreeing with your puerile whining, or backing you up?
 
That is because, however benign or well intentioned your idea is, it is extreme for one minority group of UK citizens to offer their service to the Crown on different terms to the majority. Being genererous it is devisive, being realistic it is discriminatory and illegal.
 

Strait_Jacket

War Hero
sanchauk said:
That is because, however benign or well intentioned your idea is, it is extreme for one minority group of UK citizens to offer their service to the Crown on different terms to the majority. Being genererous it is devisive, being realistic it is discriminatory and illegal.

Wanting to kill or deport your fellow citizens is extreme, floating the idea of an additional unit to serve the Crown while also providing a focal point - in military terms - for a minority group within the UK is not extreme, it is not patriotism with caveats, it is simply a desire to serve among your direct peer group.

Sikh's are potentially a good source of keen and able soldiers who will be loyal to the Queen, the Army and their mates. Bonza. Yes they could join existing Regiments, but if a well integrated minority are asking for an identifiable unit that they can call their own then why not?

Once it's up and running I'd imagine the social kudos within the Sikh community attached to serving in this Regiment will be massive, leading to greater competition for places and higher standards. If less patriotic minorities feel marginalised, well tough shit.

It must be me because I simply cannot see anything wrong with that aspiration, in fact I think it's admirable.
 
Ah, but it's not floating an idea is it? One of the originating threads clearly stated that "community leaders" could provide 700 recruits if there was a Sikh Battallion. So who are these leaders serving; themselves, their religion or their Country?

You happen to approve of this caveat. I don't. How about if the Muslim "community leaders" said they could provide 1400 recruits as long as they wouldn't have to fight brother Muslims, or the "Gay community" would chuck in a battallion as long as there were no straight soldiers in it?
 

Strait_Jacket

War Hero
sanchauk said:
Ah, but it's not floating an idea is it? One of the originating threads clearly stated that "community leaders" could provide 700 recruits if there was a Sikh Battallion. So who are these leaders serving; themselves, their religion or their Country?

I'd suggest they are trying to serve their community and their country. As I've tried to explain earlier I see it as more akin to a County Regiment idea than a band of religious zealots, the Sikhism side is incidental imo it's a group identity issue.

Sanchauk said:
You happen to approve of this caveat. I don't.
Fair one mate.

Sanchauk said:
How about if the Muslim "community leaders" said they could provide 1400 recruits as long as they wouldn't have to fight brother Muslims
I haven't read anywhere Sikh's suggesting they would join up but only if they don't have to fight brother Sikh's.

That is or could be as you point out a serious issue for men of other faiths, hence no to Moslem Regiment. Surely the point you have brought out there is precisely why a unit for one minority would work but not for another? I quite agree with that and have stressed why I think the Sikh community are a special case and deserve to be treated as such.
 
I haven't read anywhere Sikh's suggesting they would join up but only if they don't have to fight brother Sikh's.

That is or could be as you point out a serious issue for men of other faiths, hence no to Moslem Regiment. Surely the point you have brought out there is precisely why a unit for one minority would work but not for another? I quite agree with that and have stressed why I think the Sikh community are a special case and deserve to be treated as such.

And there we come to simple heart of the matter. You think they are special case. I don't think they are. They are UK citizens, end of. Why do you propose that one section of the community be treated more favourably than another?
 

Strait_Jacket

War Hero
sanchauk said:
I haven't read anywhere Sikh's suggesting they would join up but only if they don't have to fight brother Sikh's.

That is or could be as you point out a serious issue for men of other faiths, hence no to Moslem Regiment. Surely the point you have brought out there is precisely why a unit for one minority would work but not for another? I quite agree with that and have stressed why I think the Sikh community are a special case and deserve to be treated as such.

And there we come to simple heart of the matter. You think they are special case. I don't think they are. They are UK citizens, end of. Why do you propose that one section of the community be treated more favourably than another?

Because this section of the community want to serve the Country and are not overtly hostile to our values, they embrace them. IMO opinion the time is right to at least be considering this.

It is clear that integration moves at different speeds for different groups. In the opinion of community leaders young Sikh men are ready to step up and would take great pride in representing their community and country as a defined unit. Fantastic. Again I'd draw the anaology of a County Regiment but with a community instead of a geographical footprint.
 

Rayc

RIP
RIP
Strait_Jacket said:
Because this section of the community want to serve the Country and are not overtly hostile to our values, they embrace them. IMO opinion the time is right to at least be considering this.

I am sure there are Moslems in the British Army and I am sure they also want to serve UK and are not overtly hostile to British values and may not be subscribing to the popular image of the Moslems in the UK of being isolationists or whatever.
 

Strait_Jacket

War Hero
Rayc said:
I am sure there are Moslems in the British Army and I am sure they also want to serve UK and are not overtly hostile to British values and may not be subscribing to the popular image of the Moslems in the UK of being isolationists or whatever.

Of course there are Ray and more power to them, unfortunately they are not exactly beating the doors down in numbers and generally the domestic situation of the muslim community is very different to that of UK Sikh's as you are probably well aware.

Please don't think I have an anti-Muslim or any other agenda I'm just trying to be objective.

Edit: Technomong.
 
Strait_Jacket said:
stacker1 said:
The population of the UK is 92% white most of who are loyal so lets have some white only regiments eh, Oh no that would racist only certain minorities are special and should have regiments.
You don't have to but a bar on applications from whites to a Sikh Regiment, if white guys would prefer to join 1st Battalion The Queen's Own Sikh's fair play. It's about having a unit that carries their identity in name and insignia.

A few bold decisions and they'd be in business.

Remove name and that was said ages ago. Just start a non-county named battalion such as x batt the rifles and dress them in Sikh regalia for parades. Let anyone who wants to join and you have a unit with a Sikh identity that does not exclude anyone but could encourage Sikhs to join.

I would like to see more Sikhs join. I would like to see a unit that has their unique look. What I don't want is a British army unit that is allowed to distinguish between British citizens according to religion. That would hand extremists (not neccessarily violent) and lawyers a gift on a plate. We would come to regret it.

EDIT to add: Hell, if they was to be a guards battalion you could name it "Indian guards" and have them as a very high profile unit.
 

Strait_Jacket

War Hero
Stacker,

We disagree on some fairly fundamental things here so to save us both a few hours after this I'll pop smoke and do one.

For reasons that are written too many times already I think it's a good idea, you don't and I understand why, I just don't agree.

There's no money anyway so it doesn't matter :wink:
 

ottar

LE
But why would any non sikh want to join a sikh regiment? That sounds like a get out clause.

The same reason non-Scots join Scottish Regi... Battalions, Southerners join Northern County Regiments, etc.

What would be the point of a sikh regiment if anyone could join.

The same point of the County Regiments that anyone can join.

Also should we have some white only regiments after all if the sikhs want to be with their own why can't anyone else?

No one has said anything about 'Sikh only' so the persistant repetition of the 'white only/combat 18/Muslim only' Regiment is a red herring that only serves to weaken your argument.

Then they can join up like your average Muslim/Hindu/Black/Gwar does walk into the recruiting office and sign up without the need to for their own regiments.

Like it or not, some people perceive the Forces to be institutionally racist, a perception that will deter them from joining - or will leave them without family support. A 6th (Sikh) Battalion The Rifles would give them an obvious 'safe' entry point where they would have the opportunity to discover the truth, and as a Battalion there would be an inevitable glass ceiling meaning the only route to promotion for many would be transference to other Battalions/Regiments. As they permeate through the system it would, no doubt, lead to more Sikhs being recruited directly into other Battalions/Regiments/Corps.
 
Ottar

As has already been pointed out non of the county regiments or any other regiment is faith based anyone of any colour/religion can join them if they wish.
The only people who would want to join a sikh regiment would be sikhs otherwise they would join any regiment.
The bit that anyone could join a sikh regiment is similar to the BNPs announcement that black people can join their party. Similar offer that we know few people are going to take up.
Another very good reason for not having these type of regiment is every time they get the crap accomodation/major casualties/sh1t jobs it will because the rest of the army is prejudiced and if they get good accomodation/no casualties/good jobs it will be because the army panders to minorities.
 
The thought of introducing the CSM of C Coy 6th (Sikh) Rifles does apeal...
 
SHOT, LATE, ROUND OFF LINE

Did that really take you 4 1/2 months to dream up?
 

HydraJoe

Old-Salt
Bravo_Bravo said:
SHOT, LATE, ROUND OFF LINE

Did that really take you 4 1/2 months to dream up?

If you look under his avatar BB you will see he only joined the Board Yesterday!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh I havent read all this thread, but has anyone mentioned the Gurkha Regiment of the British Army?
 

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