wht for sa80

Discussion in 'The Training Wing' started by DAKOTA_STAB, Jul 25, 2009.

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  1. hi troops,

    just had a phone call from a mate who is currently on a promotion cadre.
    day 1 week 1, first thing is a weapon handling test.

    now the said lad has literally just returned from afghan and has done matts at level 1 in the last 6 months. he has also been on a two way range and done the business for real on C.L.P's out in theatre.

    so, back to the lesson, he starts w.h.t, seconds later hes stopped and asked where he learnt to take the gas parts out first, learnt it on matts and did it out in theatre like that.

    he also did afew other things that the skill at guns instructor clearly didnt like and was kicked out of the lesson and told to go see the badge, posibly didnt help himself by arguing with said instructor.

    he phoned me to confirm what i thought, having just done all matts at level 1 myself. i confirmed that what he was doing was the same as he had done in his leeson. now i dont want to go into the if and butts of the w.h.t on an open forum but i just want to know if there is a difference in teaching for deplying on ops to doing it in a lesson in blighty.
  2. WT's seem to vary sometimes from ds to ds, depending on when they took their course.

    My question is why would he be taking the rifle apart for a wht ?
  3. yeah, sorry mate, didnt take it aprt for the wht per se, just did that bit first to show if they knew how to strip an assemble for daily cleaning.
  4. I'm only a grotty crowbag with no ops experiance, but every single SAA lesson I've ever had where stripping the weapon came up, it was always working parts before the gas parts, then the reverse when re-assembling. You do get taught every so slightly different drills with varying instructors, but not come across a difference that great before.
  5. chrisg46

    chrisg46 LE Book Reviewer

    Thats my thoughts. As long as you are safe while doing so, weapon can be taken apart in wahtever order you want.
  6. Gas parts first, is an Infantry thing as you can still cock and fire the weapon without Gas parts.
    It is used when you could be hit ny the enemy at any time but the weapon still needs cleaning.

    For the WHT it should be by the book as taught during Phase One and that is working parts first.
    Its written in the test that way Sorry but thats how it is.

    Would like to also say to fail someone for doing it is a little ****!! I would have just asked the guy how he should do it in this situation.
  7. Because it is the second part of the test!!!
  8. Never been on ops but I was given a photocopy of the instructors booklet a while ago during training weekend. Says it should be moving parts first, but I can't see what the problem is doing it the other way round, not detremental to the weapon. Definately rather ****!
  9. I'm a skilly, and yes I would have asked the lad why he was doing it that way on a test, and no it isnt 'to the letter of the pam' but I would have watched the rest of his drills and skills and had a small chat after. Unless of course he got uber cocky and then the **** hat comes out.....

    The SASC way does not allow you to think or change things.
  10. Removing the Gas parts before the working parts IS detrimental to the weapon as you are forcing the gas rod spring down upon itself, releasing the working parts first reduces the strain put on that spring!!!!!

    If its not done the way of the Pam then you can fail,, but as already been said I wouldnt fail him, unless of course the testee gets a sad on and starts giving attitude.
  11. "Removing the Gas parts before the working parts IS detrimental to the weapon as you are forcing the gas rod spring down upon itself, releasing the working parts first reduces the strain put on that spring!!!!!"

    Yep. Maybe for a flimsy A1 spring, but not for the thing in the A2 that could replace the front suspension in a Mini.

    I feel for the lad. If I'd been treated like that after getting back from Afghanistan the "instructor" would have been wearing aforementioned spring as body art.

    No offence to esteemed WI's the world over... :roll:
  12. ahh I didn't know that. I'm talking crap then, cheers for the info.
  13. As was said in the first post the guy got an arse on and argued the point?????

    Think perhaps the Skilly got a bit upset?????
    Am sorry but just BACK from the Ghan or not you have to play the game, everyone with any sense knows that!!!!
  14. Playing the game works both ways mate. I've always taken the gas parts out first -- it must be an old SLR thing -- and I've never been pulled up over it.

    Pragmatism. Common sense. Respect. It pays as an instructor to have these qualities wouldn't you say?
  15. it does not matter whether you take out the gas parts before or after removing the bolt carrier assembly, as long as you can demonstrate that you can infact strip and assemble your weapon for normal daily cleaning, you cannot be given a minor fault or fail for this.