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Whooosh, Bang- UK's WWII Rockets

tiv

LE
Double Stack on a Typhoon:

IWM CL 3836.jpg
IWM CL 3838.jpg
IWM CL 3839.jpg


And this was in the sequence:

IWM CL 3837.jpg


EDIT to add: The note attached to the images indicates that they never doubled up on all rails, just two each side and that it was not used very much:

Armourers fit two extra 60-lb rocket-projectiles to the four normally carried on the wing rails of Hawker Typhoon Mark IB, MN178 'PR-V', of No. 609 Squadron RAF at B77/Gilze-Rijen, Netherlands. The ability of the Typhoon to carry twelve instead of eight RPs was, however, little-used.
 
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tiv

LE
Elijah's Mantle just fell out of my addled brain though what I was really thinking of was Hajile, or Elijah in reverse. Remember seeing in on the box years ago in a programme that included the Great Panjandrum. It never quite seem to work as intended.

Anyway here's Wiki Hajile - Wikipedia
 
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HE117

LE
IWM CL 3837.jpg


All Arms Rocket Drill course - Caterham Barracks 1941...!

..." Move forward the third rocket on the left... more yet, more yet .. Stand Still!"
 

Hippohunter

Old-Salt
Look at Rocket Projectile 3in. Carried a 60lb warhead or a 25lb solid shot. Typhoon carried at (possibly others). The 60lb occasionally pops up and has to be cleared by EOD.
A full 8 x 60lb HE rocket salvo fom a Typhoon was the same as a full broadside from a Leander light cruiser with 8 X 6 inch guns.
 
I've got letters here from Hugh Dowding about PAC. He's stuck a ban on firing the rockets at Germans. His reasoning being that a spent rocket might fall on an aircraft, and damage it! We can't have that, oh no!

Where as, the three German bombers hurtling in at 200ft are going to be dispensing love and kisses to your aircraft? I would venture that risk/rewards of firing the PAC are in the favour of Launch? As in, you'll loose more planes and personnel if you don't fire them. And who cares about one Aircraft, you've got hundreds of the bloody things rolling off the production line.
 
If you are looking for a completionist's account of ww2 British rocketry, there are also the rocket-launched grappling hooks to consider. I haven't found much about them yet, but other Arrsers may know more.

1600366507246.png

1600366521292.png
 
Someone's been throwing soil over my fence into the back Garden! (The Plot thickens!)



W.Cmdr England is some kind of PAC expert who has cropped up several times already. I can't tell you exactly what he is due to an oddity of UK files. They're in reverse with the most recent documents at the front, thus as you read you get older and older info. I'm sure I'll find out whom he is later. RAF Manston is interesting as there was mention of an incident there were something went badly wrong earlier in the files words to the effect of '..I suspect this is what happened at Manston.'

So it looks like we might have a story on our hands where something happens, and the Dowding becomes a bit of a cock over matters, only to get told off later by grown ups.
 
...due to an oddity of UK files. They're in reverse with the most recent documents at the front, thus as you read you get older and older info.
That's the normal way of filing. It avoids wearing out the paper when using a lever arch file.
 
That's the normal way of filing. It avoids wearing out the paper when using a lever arch file.

I figured it was for ease of access. You only want to know the current state of affairs, and its only weirdo's like me who want everything.

I actually wondered if Lever arch files had been invented then, as none of the documents I've seen have had the holes for them.
Luckily, and unsurprisingly, wiki has an article on the subject.
 
Ah-ha! found it. Dowding's defiantly being a cock. He's kicking up a stink saying he wasn't consulted about PAC being installed, as it was agreed he would be. The response is the above letter to put him back in his box.
 

maguire

LE
Book Reviewer
excellent thread - thoroughly absorbing.

the sort of thing arrse does best. well, that and pictures of lucy lawless.
 

HE117

LE
I figured it was for ease of access. You only want to know the current state of affairs, and its only weirdo's like me who want everything.

I actually wondered if Lever arch files had been invented then, as none of the documents I've seen have had the holes for them.
Luckily, and unsurprisingly, wiki has an article on the subject.
Nope...

Files consisted of a file cover with the folios held in date order on the right hand side using a Treasury Tag.. ( bit of string with T shaped ends). The left hand side of the cover was used to hold loose internal memos between staff officers and clerks.

The paper based information system that used to operate in HQs before the 80s was thus:

1. Letter came into HQ addressed to branch. Letter sent unopened to branch where clerk booked in letter, opened it, date stamped the folio and placed it into a "First Sight File".

2. The First Sight File was then sent round the branch, usually to the senior officer first. The rule was that you dropped whatever you were doing and read the file. Notes were added to the folios (in pencil) if urgent action was to take place. Usual response from the responsible officer would be to add "BF on FIle 1234" which meant that the clerk was to add the folio to the 1234 file and send it back ("Bring Forward") to the relevant officer. In some HQ you had to initial and date the folios, in others you simply initialled the first sight cover. There were usually different first sights for each classification. Once you had read the FSF it was passed directly to the next person on the list.

3. When the FSF got back to the registry, the clerks would then break it down, and process each folio, adding it to the relevant file. The folio would be stamped with a T shaped stamp. The folio number would be placed above the T, The clerk would go through the file, finding the back referenced folios and add the new folio number to the left of the T on these folios. The back referenced folio numbers would be written on the right hand side of the T on the new folio. In some HQs it was the practice to write the back referenced folio numbers against the specific references on the letter (as directed by the "Queen Bee/Superintending Clerk)..

4. When the file was returned to the staff officer, they would action the matter, making file notes as required. You were not supposed to write comments on the folios, but on the comment sheet at the front of the file, but many people did! If a new letter was to be written, this would be hand drafted, clipped to the file and be sent for typing. The typed draft would (eventually) be returned to the drafter on file with a file copy. If the drafter was happy, they would sign it, although it would usually be put on a float file and be approved by the Branch chief before it went out..

5. Every so often the clerk would dump a file on your desk for weeding. This was supposed to be only done by staff officers, who had to go through the file, marking up redundant correspondence for disposal. The idea was that you had to leave sufficient information to allow your successors to make sense of what had happened in the past, but not fill the cellars with pointless chit chat...

Looking back, it seems very cumbersome, but in fact the system worked very well, and kept people informed about what was going on. The filing system, if it was properly maintained, was a mine of useful information, and allowed new folk to pick up the threads of business extremely quickly. We threw out a huge number of babies with the post micro revolution...

Edited to add...

The expression "in accordance with my letter of even reference" confused me as a baby staff officer, but it means "my previous letter with the same file reference", and is nothing to do with "even and odd" numbers..
 
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Nope...

Files consisted of a file cover with the folios held in date order on the right hand side using a Treasury Tag.. ( bit of string with T shaped ends). The left hand side of the cover was used to hold loose internal memos between staff officers and clerks.

The paper based information system that used to operate in HQs before the 80s was thus:

1. Letter came into HQ addressed to branch. Letter sent unopened to branch where clerk booked in letter, opened it, date stamped the folio and placed it into a "First Sight File".

2. The First Sight File was then sent round the branch, usually to the senior officer first. The rule was that you dropped whatever you were doing and read the file. Notes were added to the folios (in pencil) if urgent action was to take place. Usual response from the responsible officer would be to add "BF on FIle 1234" which meant that the clerk was to add the folio to the 1234 file and send it back ("Bring Forward") to the relevant officer. In some HQ you had to initial and date the folios, in others you simply initialled the first sight cover. There were usually different first sights for each classification. Once you had read the FSF it was passed directly to the next person on the list.

3. When the FSF got back to the registry, the clerks would then break it down, and process each folio, adding it to the relevant file. The folio would be stamped with a T shaped stamp. The folio number would be placed above the T, The clerk would go through the file, finding the back referenced folios and add the new folio number to the left of the T on these folios. The back referenced folio numbers would be written on the right hand side of the T on the new folio. In some HQs it was the practice to write the back referenced folio numbers against the specific references on the letter (as directed by the "Queen Bee/Superintending Clerk)..

4. When the file was returned to the staff officer, they would action the matter, making file notes as required. You were not supposed to write comments on the folios, but on the comment sheet at the front of the file, but many people did! If a new letter was to be written, this would be hand drafted, clipped to the file and be sent for typing. The typed draft would (eventually) be returned to the drafter on file with a file copy. If the drafter was happy, they would sign it, although it would usually be put on a float file and be approved by the Branch chief before it went out..

5. Every so often the clerk would dump a file on your desk for weeding. This was supposed to be only done by staff officers, who had to go through the file, marking up redundant correspondence for disposal. The idea was that you had to leave sufficient information to allow your successors to make sense of what had happened in the past, but not fill the cellars with pointless chit chat...

Looking back, it seems very cumbersome, but in fact the system worked very well, and kept people informed about what was going on. The filing system, if it was properly maintained, was a mine of useful information, and allowed new folk to pick up the threads of business extremely quickly. We threw out a huge number of babies with the post micro revolution...
And you'd entrust this to people like Sluggy?
 

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