Who Really Supports Our Troops

#1
This information was sent to me and the only way I could place a box around the information was to scan and paste onto the site.

As you will see the government of the day has failed in supporting our armed forces again. The Labour Party has 352 members of the house, but only 38 Labour MP's have shown support. If you live in a Labour constituency then please email your MP and ask them to support our Troops.

Hitback



Alphabetical List of Constituencies and Members of Parliament

http://www.parliament.uk/directories/hciolists/alcm.cfm
 
#2
Pretty poor really. It wasn't even a contentious subject.

Some of them i can understand (Sinn Fein etc), but the major parties should be ashamed at themselves.

It makes you wonder if some of these politicians are aware of the EDM or are just bone idle and not doing their job.
 
#3
Sinn Feins effort hardly surprises!!! :D

542 members, only 145 turn out for the boys (+/-).

Has anyone got similar stats for the "MP pay increase motion"?
 
#4
This is one of many replies I've had from PA's to the Minister emailed. This Ministers' Constituency is Exeter. IF ANYONE reading this thread lives in Exeter could email Mr Bradshaw MP, and ask him to support EDM 288.


Dear Hitback,

Thank you for your further e mail.

If you would like Mr Bradshaw to raise the issue with colleagues he would be happy to do so. However, as explained on the Parliamentary website, Parliamentary rules mean he can only do so on behalf of someone who lives in his constituency.

If you do and would like Mr Bradshaw to do so perhaps you could let me have your postal address.

Lxxxx xxxxxxxx
 
#6
I have put posts on the Baff forums asking them to support the new thread. I have also posted into the NAAFI thread! I hope I don't get bitten!
 
#8
Surely it's the Sun, everyone knows that?? :)
 

elovabloke

ADC
Moderator
#9
The petition has got over the 2000 mark so many thanks to those who have signed and passed on the info to others.
 
#10
I'm not suprised that the vast majority who signed the EDM288 are Ulster politicians.
I got a reply from my MLA,Lady Sylvia Hermon over the matter I raised with her over the treatment of Military personnel in NHS hospitals.Lady Hermon raised the issue with Derek Twigg,the Veterans Minister.
At the bottom of the letter,she added a footnote'

"PS,I am embarresed -but not suprised- by the tardiness of the response from the MoD!It's the worst dept of the government to have to deal with by a long way"

I wonder if it is politics in general but the Ulster politician's seem to care more about our welfare than any other political party.

(Sinn Fein scum excluded!)
 
#11
We now have 151 MPs who have signed the EDM and 2061 the petition. Any help that can be given to keep this thread on the front page would be most appreciated.
 
#12
spike7451 said:
I'm not suprised that the vast majority who signed the EDM288 are Ulster politicians.
I got a reply from my MLA,Lady Sylvia Hermon over the matter I raised with her over the treatment of Military personnel in NHS hospitals.Lady Hermon raised the issue with Derek Twigg,the Veterans Minister.
At the bottom of the letter,she added a footnote'

"PS,I am embarresed -but not suprised- by the tardiness of the response from the MoD!It's the worst dept of the government to have to deal with by a long way"

I wonder if it is politics in general but the Ulster politician's seem to care more about our welfare than any other political party.
I agree to quote from a recent comment 'they can't really be bothered with our forces' Most MPs are only interested in defence when they have to be. However I suspect that will be changing in the next few months meanwhile this sums it up!
We have been here before. Kipling's most famous poem about the neglect of the British soldier ("It's Tommy this, an' Tommy that…") begins with these lines: "I went into a public 'ouse to get a pint of beer,/ The publican 'e up and sez, 'We serve no red-cats here. And our MPs are not very interested either?
 
#13
And for those who have never read the poem its the same attitude today as it ever was. Just a different age.

"Hurrah! For The Life Of A Soldier"
Tommy
By Rudyard Kipling, 1892
I went into a public- 'ouse to get a pint o' beer,

The publican 'e up an sez, "We serve no red-coats here."

The girls behind the bar they laughed an' giggled fit to die,

I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:

O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy go away";

But it's "Thank you, Mister Atkins," when the band begins to play-

The band begins to play, my boys, the band begins to play,

O it's "Thank you Mr Atkins," when the band begins to play.

I went into a theatre as sober as could be,

They gave a drunk civilian roo, but 'adn't none for me;

They sent me to the gallery or round the music-'alls,

But when it comes to fighting', Lord! They'll shove me in the stalls!

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy wait outside";

But it's "Special train for Atkins," when the trooper's on the tide-

The troopship's on the tide, my boys, the troopship's on the tide,

O it's "Special train for Atkins," when the trooper's on the tide.

Yes, makin' mock o' uniforms that guard you while you sleep

Is cheaper than them uniforms, an' they're starvation cheap;

An' hustlin' drunken soldiers when they're goin' large a bit

Is five times better business than paradin' in full kit.

Then it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy 'ow's yer soul?"

But it's "Thin red line of 'eroes" when the drums begin to roll-

The drums begin to roll, my boys, the drums begin to roll,

O it's " Thin red line of 'eroes," when the drums begin to roll.

We aren't no thin red 'eroes, nor we aren't no blackguards too,

But single men in barricks, most remarkable like you;

An' if sometimes our conduck isn't all your fancy paints,

Why single men in barricks don't grow into plaster saints;

While it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy fall be'ind,"

But it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind-

There's trouble in the wind, my boys, there's trouble in the wind,

O it's "Please to walk in front, sir," when there's trouble in the wind.

You talk o' better food for us, an' schools, an' fires, an' all:

We'll wait for extry rations if you treat us rational.

Don't mess about the cook-room slops, but prove it to our face

The Widow's Uniform is not the soldier-man's disgrace.

For it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Chuck 'im out, the brute!"

But it's "Saviour of 'is country" when the guns begin to shoot;

An' it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' anything you please;

An' Tommy ain't a bloomin' fool - you bet that Tommy sees!



Note:

It was the Duke of Wellington who coined the popular nickname Thomas (or Tommy) Atkins, for the ordinary soldier. In 1843, whilst Commander-in-Chief, he was asked to come up with a 'typical' soldier's name. Thinking back to his first campaign in the Low Countries in the 1790s he remembered a badly wounded, but stoical, soldier he had encountered - Thomas Atkins.

The Widow's Uniform - after Prince Albert's death, Queen Victoria was known as the Widow at Windsor and soldiers were known as the Widow's Sons who wore the Widow's uniform
 
#14
elovabloke said:
The petition has got over the 2000 mark so many thanks to those who have signed and passed on the info to others.
We now need to go for the 3000 barrier. Does anyone have any ideas how we can raise the profile for this campaign?
 

elovabloke

ADC
Moderator
#16
spike7451 said:
.Lady Hermon raised the issue with Derek Twigg,the Veterans Minister.
At the bottom of the letter,she added a footnote'

"PS,I am embarresed -but not suprised- by the tardiness of the response from the MoD!It's the worst dept of the government to have to deal with by a long way"
spike - would be interested in Twiggs responce as Swiss Tony promised way back in October to re-introduce Armed Forces only wards and is still to act on it, my MP is looking into it with a visit to Selly Oak soon. But thats all for another thread.
 
#19
MrsDarthspud, Thank you for that. I hope he now signs the EDM now and stops making up excuses and sitting on the fence.

Hitback
 
#20
elovabloke said:
spike7451 said:
.Lady Hermon raised the issue with Derek Twigg,the Veterans Minister.
At the bottom of the letter,she added a footnote'

"PS,I am embarresed -but not suprised- by the tardiness of the response from the MoD!It's the worst dept of the government to have to deal with by a long way"
spike - would be interested in Twiggs responce as Swiss Tony promised way back in October to re-introduce Armed Forces only wards and is still to act on it, my MP is looking into it with a visit to Selly Oak soon. But thats all for another thread.
Could this happen here? Article from The Sunday Times 4th March
From Times OnlineMarch 04, 2007

Squalor of the vets’ hospital shocks USSarah Baxter in Washington
WHILE he was recovering from a double amputation at the Walter Reed Army Medical Center in Washington, Latseen Benson, 27, met a parade of VIPs. Every time the president, the vice-president or the defence secretary passed by, the military hospital would be thoroughly scrubbed.

The improvements would not last long, according to Diane Benson, the mother of the injured Iraq war veteran.

“I wasn’t so bothered by the rats, although there were a lot running around outside, but I really wanted his room to be swept and kept clean,” she said. “You couldn’t get people to mop the blood and urine from the floor while my son was there with his legs wide open.”

President George Bush said in his weekly radio broadcast yesterday he was appalled by the conditions at the prestigious army hospital and announced a nationwide inquiry into veterans’ care.

Military hospital chief sacked
General George Weightman was relieved of command of the Walter Reed hospital after a series of disclosures about the treatment of veterans

“This is unacceptable to me, it is unacceptable to the country and it’s not going to continue,” he said.

Embarrassed by a series of articles in The Washington Post about the “other Walter Reed”, the Bush administration was in full damage control mode this weekend.

Francis Harvey, the army secretary, was forced to resign by the defence secretary, Robert Gates, who declared that “some in the army have not adequately appreciated the seriousness of the situation”.

The head of the hospital was ousted, followed swiftly by his temporary replacement, who turned out to be every bit as implicated in the poor treatment of veterans.

The crisis at Walter Reed threw the spotlight on the 50,000 sick and wounded US veterans of the Iraq war, whose struggle with physical and psychological damage has taken place largely out of sight and out of mind. For a public tiring of the war in Iraq, it has come as a shock to discover that America’s war veterans are being shoddily treated back home.

Although the standard of intensive medical care at the hospital is widely praised by injured veterans and their families, they claim that squalid conditions, bureaucratic chaos and insensitive regulations have made the process of recovery appallingly stressful.

Staff Sergeant John Shannon, 43, whose eye and skull were shattered by a sniper in Ramadi, was sent to Walter Reed in November 2004. On arrival he was given a map of the grounds and told to make his own way to his room.

Badly disoriented and barely able to see, he had to hold himself upright by sliding against the walls, asking anybody he could find for directions. After treatment for his injuries and a diagnosis of posttraumatic stress disorder, he remained stuck at Walter Reed for two years as an outpatient, but felt neglected by case workers.

“I thought, ‘Shouldn’t they contact me?’” he said. “I didn’t understand the paperwork. I’d start calling phone numbers asking if I had an appointment.”

Marine Sergeant Ryan Groves, 26, an amputee who spent 16 months at Walter Reed, said: “We’ve done our duty. We fought the war. We came home wounded. Fine. But whoever the people are back here who are supposed to give us the easy transition should be doing it.”

Problems at Walter Reed have been known to officials at the highest level for some time.

Joyce Rumsfeld, the wife of the then defence secretary, made a surreptitious visit to the hospital at the urging of a concerned friend last October.

She attended a support meeting for the wives and mothers of soldiers known as a “girls’ time out” and heard their complaints. At the end of the meeting, she asked a social worker whether her husband was getting the truth about conditions there — or whether the soldiers he met were being hand-picked to paint a rosy picture.

They were being hand-picked, the social worker replied.

When Walter Reed officials found out that Joyce Rumsfeld had been secretly invited, her friend — a frequent volunteer — was told she was no longer welcome at the hospital.

Much of the attention on Walter Reed has focused on the poor conditions at Building 18, a dilapidated outpatient facility full of mouse droppings, dead cockroaches, stained carpets, old mattresses and mould on the walls.

The underlying problem, according to injured veterans, is that the venerable 113-acre hospital has been overwhelmed by the number of casualties in a war that was supposed to be over quickly.

“A doctor told me he had seen 3,000 young men and women come through Walter Reed and he didn’t know if he could take any more,” said Diane Benson in an interview with The Sunday Times.

Roughly two Americans were wounded for every one who died in the second world war. In Vietnam and Korea, the ratio was three to one. But, with striking advances in medical treatment on the battlefield, rapid evacuations by helicopter and better armour, soldiers who survive the first few minutes of an explosion now have a 98% chance of staying alive. In Iraq, seven soldiers are wounded for every one who dies, according to government figures.

Brady van Engelen, who works for Veterans for America, spent eight months at Walter Reed after he was shot in the head on patrol in Baghdad. “I’m guessing that 30 years ago, I would have died,” he said.

“The hospital is completely overwhelmed by the number of injured,” Engelen said. “They didn’t forecast that there would be so many wounded.”

Walter Reed hospital is home to nearly 700 war injured who no longer need hospital beds but still need outpatient treatment.

In accordance with army rules, they are obliged to rise at dawn and present themselves for inspection despite their injuries.

“It really bothered me. My son hated it,” Benson said. “He’d say, ‘Why are they making us do it?’”

It was also an ordeal for psychiatric patients, according to Ron Justi, whose son Steve, 28, had a nervous breakdown. “A lot of guys were too drugged up to attend, yet they were threatened with disciplinary action,” he said. “They hardly had the ability to function as soldiers. It was terrible to see the amputees trying to make their way to the lineup.”

Justi had high praise for the psychiatrists at Walter Reed, but said outpatients living in the hospital grounds or in apartments near the gates were routinely neglected. “There weren’t enough staff to follow up their treatment. They’d stop taking their meds and get sick again,” he said.

“The hospital didn’t understand what this war was going to be about and was unable to handle the influx of soldiers with physical and mental injuries.”

After spending eight months at Walter Reed, Steve Justi was released in October last year and denied compensation for his mental injuries. The army blamed a previous bout of mental illness at college — which its recruiters had been told about but had brushed aside.

Last week Justi was told he would be compensated after all, but it had taken a prolonged fight with the army bureaucracy to win his case.

Many patients at Walter Reed are trapped in bureaucratic limbo, receiving little treatment while their applications to leave languish unprocessed.

Van Engelen said that, after receiving intensive care for his head injuries, he spent six months waiting to be released because the paperwork was so overwhelming.

One soldier committed suicide while he was there, but the incident was hushed up. “It was incredibly demoralising to go from being a high-level platoon leader in Iraq to just hanging around, waiting to leave.”

Van Engelen is pleased that the Bush administration has finally noticed the problems plaguing injured veterans. “Watching heads roll is not enough,” he said. “You can fire all the people you want but there has to be more than cosmetic change.”
Comment from a reader
Furthermore, the US government has utterly failed to adjust to conditions on the ground after more than 4 years of war. There are still too few troops on the ground. And so now we see that our soldiers are treated with such neglect because the military health care system is too overburdened to provide proper care and support. No one has said this could not have been foreseen. And the White House can do nothing give us scapegoats.
 

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