White Light LED NVG Compatable?

Discussion in 'Aviation' started by Kaaa, Nov 10, 2005.

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  1. D'ya hear there,

    A quick one for you fly boys:

    Is LED white light NVG compatable?

    That is all.
  2. Compatable in what way Kaa? Its white so it will be seen through goggles. Do you want it to be seen or not?
  3. Yeah but will it shut them down?
  4. As a user of NVG, Flash will know more but NVG would have a saturation threshold. How quickly this reacts to sudden and excessive light would be a design feature I would have thought, so I'm guessing that it would be difficult to disable them.

    comma edit
  5. maninblack

    maninblack LE Book Reviewer

    NVG is a black art.

    “NVG Compatible” is a meaningless phrase in that it does not define what works with NVG equipment in which way.

    The first question that you need to ask is;

    Do I want to be seen or not seen through NVG goggles?

    The answer to this question determines one range of light frequencies to be used. It is possible to tune light output so that you and I can see it with the Mk1 eyeball but it causes minimal flaring to a wearer of NVG kit. This has limited use in an active situation but is theoretically valuable for training.

    The second question that you need to ask is;

    Do I want joe public to be able to see me?

    If the answer is no then you are looking at light output in the infra red area of the spectrum, often referred to as “covert NVG” This is normally achieved through IR L.E.D.s.

    Question three would be;

    Do I want to illuminate something whilst using goggles?

    This often leads you into the classic area of 645-665 nanometres output, IIRC which is classic “NVIS Green”, we can all see it but the goggles can read a book with it.

    In answer to your original question, yes, the goggles will flare like Mark Bolan's trousers.

    There are various specifications for NVIS Green, there was an early spec for NVIS Blue, which was in many respects better, there is NVIS IR plus a host of other mid way concepts still being bounced around. However, white light is a very broad spectrum and so, with the latest theory that I am aware of, could not be classified as NVIS compatible in any way shape or form as it is emitting frequencies for UV-IR. I am, however, no longer at the cutting edge of this technology so I stand to be corrected.

    There is a shed load more to this area than I have explained and I have had a bottle of wine so if someone wishes to rip this to pieces then feel free.
  6. ...erm, Maninblack too :)

    correct quote edit
  7. So, If i turn on an LED white light in a cockpit whilst the pilots are on NVG, I wont be their favourite passenger
  8. You may find yourself being the first piece of "self-loading cargo" to be unloaded whilst in normal flight :D

  9. Blue is alot more user friendly. I use a blue LED and it is very good. It tends not to obscure the green bits on the map as a green LED sometimes would. Most of the blues still show up too. (Of course, if you have prepared your map IAW H21, you will have highlighted the water features and woods anyway. :wink: )

    Is that like SOP procedures? :lol: :lol:
  10. What I think Kaaa meant was that a white LED torch does not close down NVG tubes (different wavelength) therefore during PEACE TIME ops you could use it to read maps etc, see all the colours and not interfere with the goggles. Miletts sell a really neat one, about £15, I'm sure would do a great job, rubber covering and sparkproof. Remember though, not covered by the R to S, you'd think someone would get D & T or Bosc Dn to "test" it so it could be used, or maybe that would be too sensible. giving us good quality kit that does the job. I love the night flying briefing .... "only use a spark proof torch with a NVG filter" !! ... what NVG filter does the QM provide ... none!
  11. Cheers fella. Hit the nail on the head.
  12. I expect, if there are any left, the sort that fit onto right angled torches, as issued by AAC QM's circa 98-03!
    I have a couple sitting in the garage somewhere doing SFA, so they do exist! When I left there were about 10 in a box in 661's flight stores. Middle shelf left hand side.
    Also, if you were lucky, some QM's issued a limited supply of 'lip torches' around 99-ish.

    But, hey, I understand, truth good story and all that!!!!!!!

  13. you once told me to use a permy green lumocolour or quality street wrappers from the noisette triangle! But if you do have some filters kicking about, 'gis one! ta.
  14. If I did it would be a bit of a WAH that you fell for fella, as the noisette triangles were/are wrapped in green foil !! :lol:


    As you can see!