White House used forged documents in case for Iraq war

#1
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1008766.html

The Bush administration used forged documents that it presented as evidence of Saddam Hussein's complicity in the September 11 terrorist attacks, and which were later used as a pretext to launch the American invasion of Iraq in March 2003, according to a newly released book
...
MI6 recruited Saddam Hussein's intelligence chief, Tahir Abd al-Jalil al-Tikriti, and questioned him in Amman two months before the war, and then handed him over to the CIA. Al-Tikriti continued to function as an agent for the Americans
...
al-Tikriti's CIA handlers requested that he handwrite a letter on official Iraqi government letterhead stating that Mohammed Atta, the ringleader of the 9/11 hijackers, underwent training in Iraq prior to carrying out the attacks, according to Suskind. In addition, al-Tikriti wrote in the letter that Al-Qaida aided the Iraqi government in obtaining uranium in Niger.
...
The CIA was quick to disseminate the letter to journalists in Iraq, Britain, and the United States while creating the impression that it was discovered in the Iraqi Foreign Ministry archives by U.S. forces, Suskind writes. A short time later, the British Daily Telegraph was one of the first newspapers to publish the contents of the letter, which was touted as proof that there indeed was a link between Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaida, and that the Iraqi leader was intent on developing weapons of mass destruction. Other newspapers though were more skeptical of the document's authenticity
 
#2
Oh that is such old news ... nobody believes it here but it does rear its scraggy head ever so often ...
 
#3
Newsflash bear poo's in wood...dodgy int, smoke and mirror, porkies monkey boy and billy liar. 'Not news' really.
 

Mr_Fingerz

LE
Book Reviewer
#4
And there was I thinking it was the non-existent WMD.

Sergey, we've long known that the shaved chimp had subsumed AQ and Iraq into one aspect of the Axle of Elvis, so can you now tell us something that we didn't know?
 
#6


HMS Sergey
 
#7
She's not me. I don't see St.Andrew flag (Russian naval flag, looks like Scotish one but it is a blue cross on a white field).

The article contains something new (at least for me). It appears that MI6 recruited Saddam's intelligence chief. So mr.Balir having such an outstanding source of information at hand was pretty well aware about absence of any WMD in Iraq. Still he hasn't made such a confession.
 

TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
#8
Has Vlad The Bald admitted his fondness for devising unusual Sushi dishes? Or having his chaps pack the basement of a Ryazan tower block with.... ah yes. Turned out it was bags of sugar didnt it? Silly me. Care to discuss your rules of engagement in Chechnya?

I could go on. But first could you take off that tinfoil hat? It looks silly.
 
#9
TheIronDuke said:
Has Vlad The Bald admitted his fondness for devising unusual Sushi dishes?
You lordship, likely, you mean mysterious death of mr.Litvinenko who was apparently poisoned in London by unidentified person(s). But what is a connection beween the death and mr.Putin? I have no idea.

TheIronDuke said:
Or having his chaps pack the basement of a Ryazan tower block with.... ah yes. Turned out it was bags of sugar didnt it? Silly me.
I'm aware about this story. No one died, no one was datained or/and beaten. The Law was not violated. So what could we discuss?

TheIronDuke said:
Care to discuss your rules of engagement in Chechnya?
The rules followed Russian Laws. Unfortubately few individauals in rare cases violated the ruled and were punished as a result.


I could go on. But first could you take off that tinfoil hat? It looks silly.[/quote]
 
#10
Sergey, just wondering, I am curious to know your opinion - Is the Russian Federation seeking to challenge United States hegemony? I mean, China and India would seem most likely candidate for this, but I think it foolish to forget the Russian Federation.
 

TheIronDuke

ADC
Book Reviewer
#11
KGB_resident said:
TheIronDuke said:
Has Vlad The Bald admitted his fondness for devising unusual Sushi dishes?
You lordship, likely, you mean mysterious death of mr.Litvinenko who was apparently poisoned in London by unidentified person(s). But what is a connection beween the death and mr.Putin? I have no idea.
I really dont know. Do you suppose Andrei Lugovoi will take time off from his busy political career to visit England and attend a Premiership match? He used to be such a big fan.

KGB_resident said:
TheIronDuke said:
Or having his chaps pack the basement of a Ryazan tower block with.... ah yes. Turned out it was bags of sugar didnt it? Silly me.
I'm aware about this story. No one died, no one was datained or/and beaten. The Law was not violated. So what could we discuss?
300+ people died Serg, as you know. Your chaps at Ryazan got nicked by the local Plod because they were acting like sloppy goats and thought they were above the law. Which, as it turned out, they were. More sugar Vicar?

KGB_resident said:
TheIronDuke said:
Care to discuss your rules of engagement in Chechnya?
The rules followed Russian Laws. Unfortubately few individauals in rare cases violated the ruled and were punished as a result.
Wow. I never knew that. Tens of thousands of Chechnyans and Inglushi have got the complete wrong end of the stick in that case.

I guess my point is this.

There is a shedload of events that give us all pause for thought here in the UK. We debate them in the press, in pubs and on MBs. But implied criticism from a Russian citizen married to an ex KGB officer?

Nah. Sorry mate.
 
#12
Bigdumps said:
Sergey, just wondering, I am curious to know your opinion - Is the Russian Federation seeking to challenge United States hegemony? I mean, China and India would seem most likely candidate for this, but I think it foolish to forget the Russian Federation.
In fact Russia is challeging US hegemony openly. The USA is of course the most powerfull player on geopolitical stage. But relatively short period of its unquestionable domination is near to end (if not ended). Our american friends should accept it.
 
#13
TheIronDuke said:
I really dont know. Do you suppose Andrei Lugovoi will take time off from his busy political career to visit England and attend a Premiership match? He used to be such a big fan.
Political career? Before his death only few were aware about his existence.

TheIronDuke said:
KGB_resident said:
TheIronDuke said:
Or having his chaps pack the basement of a Ryazan tower block with.... ah yes. Turned out it was bags of sugar didnt it? Silly me.
I'm aware about this story. No one died, no one was datained or/and beaten. The Law was not violated. So what could we discuss?
300+ people died Serg, as you know. Your chaps at Ryazan got nicked by the local Plod because they were acting like sloppy goats and thought they were above the law. Which, as it turned out, they were. More sugar Vicar?
300+ people died in the city of Ryasan because of sugar? Apparently you are ill informed.

TheIronDuke said:
KGB_resident said:
TheIronDuke said:
Care to discuss your rules of engagement in Chechnya?
The rules followed Russian Laws. Unfortubately few individauals in rare cases violated the ruled and were punished as a result.
Wow. I never knew that. Tens of thousands of Chechnyans and Inglushi have got the complete wrong end of the stick in that case.
There were 2 wars. There were armed rebels. There was alas collareral damage.

TheIronDuke said:
I guess my point is this.

There is a shedload of events that give us all pause for thought here in the UK. We debate them in the press, in pubs and on MBs. But implied criticism from a Russian citizen married to an ex KGB officer?

Nah. Sorry mate.
Criticism? Where have you seen criticism. It is just funny information, some interesting details. It is a place for rumours, gossips, scandals... not for lectures... though... it's an interesting idea.

Why not to lecture you Brits about scientific communism, about its theoretical basis. Then I was a student of Moscow university I studied scientific communism (we used to call it scientific idiotism).
 
#14
KGB_resident said:
Bigdumps said:
Sergey, just wondering, I am curious to know your opinion - Is the Russian Federation seeking to challenge United States hegemony? I mean, China and India would seem most likely candidate for this, but I think it foolish to forget the Russian Federation.
In fact Russia is challeging US hegemony openly. The USA is of course the most powerfull player on geopolitical stage. But relatively short period of its unquestionable domination is near to end (if not ended). Our american friends should accept it.
Why not, it's only been ended for what, 30 years now?

I love that doom and gloom, fatalistic approach in your writing, I truly think you missed your calling and should be writing drama novels.

Actually, you underestimate the US. Economy is starting to bounce back already, Iraq is nearing a close, a new president on the horizon. Russia is not much more than a mere annoyance to the US at this point and not even close to the same playing field today. In fact, the perception here is that Pakistan is more of a threat to US interests than Russia.

I think China has the best bet of leveling the field, but then again with so much invested in the US why would they want to do that.

I appreciate your commitment to lower the status of the US, one post at a time (but I really think you are wasting your time)

Cheers!
 
#15
Ghost, I was asked and sinerely described my point of view. Apparently you disagree. No problem, it is not a tragedy. Being geopolitical rivals (it is reality) we (and our peoples) can remain friends. There is no contradiction.

Back to the theme. Do you think that it is natural for global superpower to use forgery and lies in external policy? And should other countries take it (such a habit) into account?

Do you think that the USA is moral leader in the World? Do you think that America should seek moral leadership?

Now I asked you. Describe your point of view, if you would like of course.
 
#16
KGB_resident said:
Ghost, I was asked and sinerely described my point of view. Apparently you disagree. No problem, it is not a tragedy. Being geopolitical rivals (it is reality) we (and our peoples) can remain friends. There is no contradiction.

Back to the theme. Do you think that it is natural for global superpower to use forgery and lies in external policy? And should other countries take it (such a habit) into account?

Do you think that the USA is moral leader in the World? Do you think that America should seek moral leadership?

Now I asked you. Describe your point of view, if you would like of course.
Morality is a subjective term. It means something different to everyone.

Do I think the US is a moral leader in the world? Can you further define your question? Are you referring to the American government or the American people? There is quite a large distinction there.

One thing that seems to be lost about the US to many outside is that the US is much like a Microcosm of the world itself. The variety of race, culture, language, et al is unmatched in any other country on the planet.

With that in mind, you also have the varying degrees on what world view should be and what policy should be.

And I would say that you, as a Russian, don't have a lot of room to talk about using deception and forgery in foreign policy. The FSB and KGB pretty much wrote the book (and trained their US counterparts) on that.

I challenge you to find one country that doesn't. The US isn't exclusive of using any and all means to achieve a goal. That's the way it is.

What country in your opinion is the "Moral leader" and why do they benefit from it?
 
#17
ghost_us said:
KGB_resident said:
Ghost, I was asked and sinerely described my point of view. Apparently you disagree. No problem, it is not a tragedy. Being geopolitical rivals (it is reality) we (and our peoples) can remain friends. There is no contradiction.

Back to the theme. Do you think that it is natural for global superpower to use forgery and lies in external policy? And should other countries take it (such a habit) into account?

Do you think that the USA is moral leader in the World? Do you think that America should seek moral leadership?

Now I asked you. Describe your point of view, if you would like of course.
Morality is a subjective term. It means something different to everyone.

Do I think the US is a moral leader in the world? Can you further define your question? Are you referring to the American government or the American people? There is quite a large distinction there.
Of course I mean US as a state, I mean American policy toward other countries, declared objectives and means to reach them. As for the Americans then I don't see a big difference between them and other peoples.

ghost_us said:
One thing that seems to be lost about the US to many outside is that the US is much like a Microcosm of the world itself. The variety of race, culture, language, et al is unmatched in any other country on the planet.

With that in mind, you also have the varying degrees on what world view should be and what policy should be.

And I would say that you, as a Russian, don't have a lot of room to talk about using deception and forgery in foreign policy. The FSB and KGB pretty much wrote the book (and trained their US counterparts) on that.
We discuss current events. We are not digging history. If you mean that Russia used lies, forgery in foreign relations last 10 years then are you aware about any examples?

ghost_us said:
I challenge you to find one country that doesn't. The US isn't exclusive of using any and all means to achieve a goal. That's the way it is.
Well. Germany for exmple. This country passed the stage then all means were used to achieve a goal and the Germans have learned the lesson. What would you say about Italy, Canada, India, Mexico, Brazil? There are dozens other countries around the World.

ghost_us said:
What country in your opinion is the "Moral leader" and why do they benefit from it?
There is no single moral leader. There is rather a group of countries thats policy is not principless. Benefits... External policy is like business. If you are trustworthly businesman, sincere and honest then your partners would believe your word.

There ares Russian sayings:

If you give word then hold it.
Agreement is more valuable than money.

They are simple principles and those who ignore then finaly would lost not win.
 
#18
KGB_resident said:
The article contains something new (at least for me). It appears that MI6 recruited Saddam's intelligence chief. So mr.Balir having such an outstanding source of information at hand was pretty well aware about absence of any WMD in Iraq. Still he hasn't made such a confession.
I'd want to check the evidence behind that claim before disappearing off down rabbit holes Sergey.
 
#19
LISpace said:
KGB_resident said:
The article contains something new (at least for me). It appears that MI6 recruited Saddam's intelligence chief. So mr.Balir having such an outstanding source of information at hand was pretty well aware about absence of any WMD in Iraq. Still he hasn't made such a confession.
I'd want to check the evidence behind that claim before disappearing off down rabbit holes Sergey.
At least it is a good rumour.
 
#20
KGB_resident said:
LISpace said:
KGB_resident said:
The article contains something new (at least for me). It appears that MI6 recruited Saddam's intelligence chief. So mr.Balir having such an outstanding source of information at hand was pretty well aware about absence of any WMD in Iraq. Still he hasn't made such a confession.
I'd want to check the evidence behind that claim before disappearing off down rabbit holes Sergey.
At least it is a good rumour.
I humbly disagree. A good rumour must to be credible. This one is easily dismissed.
 

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