White House: Murthas call is surrender

Discussion in 'Current Affairs, News and Analysis' started by PartTimePongo, Nov 18, 2005.

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  1. http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/11/18/murtha.iraq/

    Another photo opportunity to deliver a speech in front of the only audience you can rely on not to heckle you Mr. President?

    I apologise to our cousins in advance, but this seems just like using the troops in a cynical fashion.
  2. John Murtha: A former Marine with decorations including the Purple Heart and Bronze Star (a proper medal) who reached the rank of Colonel in the USMC.

    George W Bush: A former junkie and alcoholic who used his father's influence to avoid serving his country in the Vietnam War, and who shirked his cushy Air National Guard assignment, and expects soldiers to die in a war of his own making based upon his colossal deceit, arrogance and stupidity.

    Dick Cheney: Another cowardly liar (like the cowardly liar Bush) who did not even bother taking a Air National Guard assignment, but who obtained five deferments from service in Vietnam.

    I know who I'd believe. Are Americans really so stupid?
  3. I would refer you to the statement I made on the Oliver North thread in the Int Cell.
  4. Ah yes, the old familiar song from Vietnam-dodging US politicians. "We support our troops - as long as they agree with us".
  5. Put yourself in the sandals of haji for a sec. You see the willpower in the US Congress waivering would that not give you a morale boost to stay the course ? To me this is the danger. If there was a unified voice haji might consider an exit strategy of their own.
  6. "haji"

    Nice to know you have such a high opinion of the people you liberated. BTW, where are all the 23 million Iraqi 'haji' going to exit to?
  7. I doubt very much he did. His avatar used to be a USN flag. Now it's Army jump wings. He probably learned the phrase on the Discovery Channel. I'll leave the Waltenkommando to investigate further. :wink:

    Good point about the Iraqi exit strategy Razorman. It's not as if people are suddenly going to roll over when faced with a They're going to bottle all their resentment up and unleash it at another time- and these folks have long fcuking memories.

    The fact that the Administration is demanding acquiescence of Americans is essentially fascistic in nature and makes a mockery of the democratic values they proclaim to be exporting. The hypocrisy of the White House and No. 10 helps recruitment and resolve of the other side too.
  8. From said tin-foil hat site
    As opposed to...?

    As the London, Bali and Madrid attacks etc. clearly demonstrate...

    So what does tell you about the wisdom of your little adventure, the liklihood for success, and the idea that it promoted peace and stability?

    So things are upbeat at the moment? Fascinating.

    That's how you motivate sovereign states, who have their own interests, agendas and priorities*- call them spineless. with regard to terror- terror is the REaction, not the action. You are only terrorized if you allow yourself to be. Hysterical kneejerk policies and reactions are the visible symptoms of a wider problem- that the people in charge have lost the plot. (Who remembers "Radiological attack! Threat level Orange! HOLY FCUKING SH!T!!! BUY DUCT TAPE!!!! BUY DUCT TAPE!!!" Cnuts.)

    Once again, he draws the Afghanistan-Iraq link. Fcuk me, these muppets are predictable.

    *- "Having other priorities" is a perfectly acceptable reason for opting out of going to war- just ask Dick Cheney as that's the excuse he gave to justify his FIVE draft deferments during the Vietnam war.
  9. Actually I thought I would try the avatar change - guess I had too much time on my hands last night.
    As for my haji reference I referred of course to the enemy. But as you support the other side I can see how you might be offended.
    Perhaps you would prefer i call them martyr. It does amuse me to see you call a conservative blogger a tin foil hat member, when on my side you would be the tin foil hat wearer. I guess it all depends on your viewpoint. 8)

  10. 'erm you do realise that Hajji is a term of respect used to desrcibe any man who has been on pilgrimage to Mecca?
    Now if you think that every person who has ever been on pilgrimage to Mecca is an Iraqi terrorist/hater of democracy .... then erm, well not even Daniel Pipes thinks that!

    FYI: Martyr/Witness in arabic/persian or urdu is shaheed.
    Also I wouldn't use it a negative term as many Arab/Asian Christians also use the term.
  11. 2 Quick points

    1. Tom6 is most definitely not a Walt.

    2. Increasingly across various forums outside Arrse, I am seeing American servicemen attacked for retaining their belief, faith and support in their colleagues doing their best in Iraq. I do not want to see commentary in Arrse heading the same way.

    Now , as far as I can tell, I so not see the American Military dictating policy in Iraq. What I do see however, is a political shambles , seeking to increasingly place blame on the Military for the Iraq mess, via the use of certain bloggers , mainstream media and spin designed to protect the politicians responsible for this mess.

    The problem as I see it now, is the determination of certain parties to have their cake and eat it. Their grand plan was flawed from the start , and instead of changing the plan to meet the threat, they decided to stay with it, no matter what the cost. The cost is in the lives of yet more American servicemen killed this weekend, and the figures for US deaths in the last week approaching 30 , as commanders seek to keep down the insurgency, that some in Washington are still insisting is only a 'hiccup'

    Instead of hearing how this mess is going to be resolved , and the plan of action to hand over sovereignty , we hear the same tired hackneyed phrases "Stay the course, Fighting them there so we don't do it here etc etc" We hear any talk of announcing a timetable for withdrawl and handing over control , is 'giving in to terrorists" Now this confuses me. I thought the plan was to depose Hussein, hold free and fair elections and get out. Why is the announcement of a timetable for withdrawl 'giving in to terrorists' unless we never intended to disengage in the first place?

    I find it verging on the disgusting, to see a President who instead of taking the helm, amd announcing what the plan is to disengage US Forces and by default ourselves from the morass , cynically uses the Military for yet another photocall to show that he has the uneqivocal support of the Military for his plans and current course of action.

    I have news for you Mr. President, you don't. There is only so long, that the Military , and in particular the Reserve and their families can put up with this mess. There is only so long you can continue to hide behind the Military to push the flawed policies and advice of those who do not even have the interests of the United States as their primary goal.
  12. Endorse PTP above. My only problem is the spirit and, I suppose, style of the US serviceman. They still have a lot of The Alamo mentality and I do not just mean the movie of that name. They are a strongly Christian country - large churches all across America will be chock-full today. That is a self-sustaining community that gives group support. The overall situation seems to that Americans still believe that what they did was right - in Christian terms right and it will take a lot to shift. It will be, for some, The Lord testing them rather than fighting terrorists. I truly hope that some way can be found to get the guys out of Iraq. For a long time now, the situation has not deserved one further single coalition casualty.
    The old fairytale about oil should sign off. They have oil but they need to extract it, transport it and market it. This cannot be done by faith in Allah alone - the West has the expertise; much of it American.
    There has to be much double-dealing and confidence trickery to get out. Do it - call it fine diplomacy. Once we are out, we (the West) need to realise that the Middle East is no longer our play-war battleground and stay out. Leave it to those who live there. Israel will always be a major player if we leave them alone - they know what price they would have to pay if they lost any war.
    We also should try and recover the style of middle-ages battles. The Kings who started the troubles led their armies into battle. I for one would ignore B Liar no matter how much he offered me a kingdom for a horse!
  13. Going to Iraq was the right thing Christian or not. I might add most of the people being killed in Iraq by the terrorist/insurgence are Iraqi , Especially those who are trying to bring a decent form of government to that country.