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which is the most effective?

#1
hi fellow arrsers, just after some advice.
i am in training to get fit enough to join the army, i need to lose quite a bit of weight but im prepared to put in the effort to get there.
im well prepared for all the usual eat less and work more comments, but can anyone give me ideas for the most effective weight loss exercises.
at the min im in the gym pretty much every other day, doing aroun 50 mins cardio work, on the bike and cross trainer. i dont have the stamina at the min to run for long but im starting intervals on the treadmill and building that up.
i also do some weights but not too much as i dont want to add any weight from building muscle.
one thing that puzzles me is the different heart rate zones. if i go on a 30 min prog on the cross trainer, normally i will go at it hard for the full 30 mins, with an average HR of around 158, and a pace of 150. that will normally get me sweating like a b@st@rd and feeling like ive really worked at the end of it.
yesterday, i tried to keep the HR down in the lower, fat burning zone, averaging around 130 and a pace of 125 for the same time. at the end of the session, the calories used was 459, where if i go all out its 470ish.
if i am using the same calories pretty much, am i better going at a slower pace or going flat out and feeling as if ive had a better work out? which is more beneficial for weight loss??
cheers
dan
 
#2
You need to lose weight? Is your BMI over the limit they've set? If not I'd focus on cardiovascular strength as you'll lose weight if you eat the right amount.
 
#3
Aerobic exercise is the best for fat burning, cycling or jogging are generally good but its all to no avail unless you reduce the amount of calorie intake which will be difficult as the exercise will make you hungry. Keep your fluid intake up with constant rehydration with water. Just make sure all the running you do isn't to the pantry!!! ;-)
 
#4
yeah my bmi is over. im currently 28, 6' and weigh 116kg. i know i have a lot to lose but i am determined to do it. i have wanted to join the army for a long time and am going ot do it before im too old. ive already lost 12kg, so it is going the right way, i just wondered if there was anything in particular i could do that would shift the weight more than other techniques.
dan
 
#5
Outcast said:
Aerobic exercise is the best for fat burning, cycling or jogging are generally good but its all to no avail unless you reduce the amount of calorie intake which will be difficult as the exercise will make you hungry. Keep your fluid intake up with constant rehydration with water. Just make sure all the running you do isn't to the pantry!!! ;-)
:D thats been the hardest part!! ive never been a big unhealthy eater, but i did tend to snack a lot.
ive cut that down and im a lot more careful about what i eat.
i agree about aerobic exercise as that is mainly what ive been doing, but at what level do i need to do it to burn the fat quicker?
am i better at a lower HR or going balls out? will one burn fat quicker than the other?
what confused me is the fat burning zone on the HR monitor is lower than the CV zone, but surely if you are working harder you are using more energy?
dan
 
#6
What like is your diet? You can run all you like but if your diet isn't working for you then it'll be an uphill struggle.

The reason the fat burning zone is lower than the cardio vascular zone is because when your muscles are running out of fuel the body takes any blood sugar and feeds the muscle that as it's a quick solution whereas if your body has time to find a stored source (like bodyfat or liver) then it will feed from that instead.
 
#7
diet is pretty good, i used to be a chef so im ok with nutrition and portion control. i tend to eat as little fried stuff as possible, mostly grilled or baked. lots of veg and im starting to replace the snacky stuff with a glass of water or fruit if i must have something to eat.
 
#8
Its about where you are burning the energy from, you need lots of oxygen to burn off the fat. While you can burn as many calories at higher heart rates, you will "hit the wall" a lot quicker and probably hurt yourself which will stop you from doing further exercise.

Have a look at this page which should explain things to you, if you are doing aerobic exercise, you obviously have to do it a bit longer to burn the same amount of calories but it will be easier on you in the long run.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerobic_exercise
 
#9
As Zedd said its about your BMI there are many posts on this subject that you can view. However I will say dont ignore the weights and do press ups and sit ups, this is because you need to maintain and improve your 'core' strength which will help you on the assault courses ect... Also press ups and sit ups are a vital part of the BPFA which is the fitness test you must complete to pass selection. I hope this helps.
 
#10
dansrockin said:
yeah my bmi is over. im currently 28, 6' and weigh 116kg. i know i have a lot to lose but i am determined to do it. i have wanted to join the army for a long time and am going ot do it before im too old. ive already lost 12kg, so it is going the right way, i just wondered if there was anything in particular i could do that would shift the weight more than other techniques.
dan
Well, I'm 6' 4" 37yrs old and weigh 110kg. I'm not classed as overwieght...though on the last MOT the quack did say that she would like to see me at 95kgs. I think that is plain daft...I would be skin and bones. I recently did put on a lot of wieght but have dropped it quite easily in the last 2 months.

Diet wise, it has been Special K and skimmed milk in the morning, a series of muslie bars throughout the day (10, 12 and 1400hrs). Any coffee has been with sweetners and skimmed milk again, though I dropped the large intake of coffee I usually have, for water instead. A normal meal in the evenings (no duff or double duff). Fruit for lunch and stay off the beer for at least a month.

Fittness has been condfined to running (about 5 miles three times a week) and swimming on a weekend.

There is no easier answer to losing weight than...expend more calories than you intake. I reckon that I was intaking roughly 1000-1500kcal a day, RDA for a male is 2500kcl. factor in the exercise and hey presto I can no longer see the inner tube round my waist and the jeans fit again.

Bear in mind that you will lose an absolute sh1t load in training (I went down to 14st), so you don't want to be too skinny...

Hope this helps.
 
#11
Right this is going to be violently contested by everyone here but it worked for me when I was cutting for a taekwondo competition (was 6kg over the limit for the category I wanted to be in) and I managed to loose 8kg in a week. I estimate 3kg of that was water so doing that mean you could potentially loose 5kg in a week.. BUT its horrible and really bad for you. Disclaimer accepted? Ok...

1) Each day drink A HUGE AMOUNT of water. I'm talking in the 5 litres range.

2) Eat 1500 calories per day. No refined sugars or carbs. Very little fat. At least 1000 calories complex carbs and the rest protein (grilled chicken breast and fish for me). Take vitamin suppliments.

4) Do NO intense exercise. None. Not even a tiny bit. None.Each day do 2-3 hours of light cardio. Go to a gym and row, cycle, step, brisk walk, cross train for 4-6 sets of 30 minutes.

5) Each night, 3 hours before bed, binge on sage tea (buy fresh sage and let it sit in boiling water for 5 min) drink 3 or 4 cups. No prepare to piss alot.

6) Get lots of sleep.

Please please dont do this for mroe than a week and preferably not at all. its fcuking horrible and bad for you. But you will loose a shed load of weight which if you are carefull in the two weeks following you can keep off.

There you go. I take no responsiblity if you die.

J.
 
#12
This fella isn't preparing for a one day event though Jay, he's going to have to lose weight and then maintain his weight. Crash dieting will only hinder him in the long term.
 
#13
Sounds to me Dan like your doing pretty much everything you can do, im no expert but weight loss and exercise are a pretty personal thing and what works for one wont work for the next guy, one point that may or may not help you is that the more muscle mass your body has the more calories you will burn and so the more fat you can get rid of, thats what a personal trainer friend of mine says anyway....now I know you have to be carefull with your bmi but abit of muscle mass will make your life easier eitherway.


hope this helps
 
#14
I lost 3stone from april-august.
I did mainly weight training.
Lifting heavy means that the muscles need lots of energy to recover, so your burning calories for 2days after your work out, (not just while your running). And, your using every muscle in your body to burn up energy rather than just lower body.

my basic program was 30-45mins heavy lifting 3times a week.
1x30mins rowing/week
1x30min run/week
1x15mile walk/week

I ended up eatting the same amount of calories as I did when I was 14stone. but i ate at the right times. like before and after exercise rather than late at night before bed.
 
#15
Ignore all the above half baked bull.

If you want to lose weight rapidly (as oppose to getting fit for a spefic test) you should spend a lot of time outside walking if you are not comfortable jogging yet.

Ideally hillwalking if you have the miss fortune of living in the south of england. Do something everyday you can. Spend at least 90minutes a day outside. At this time of year keeping your body warm will use a lot of calleries. Eat regulary and eat enough. I would be warry of any drastic cut back caleries unless you are eating an obeseen amount.

For army type fittness you should work out hard for a short period as thats what they test this does little for weight loss espically for people will a low fitness level who can suistain much effort for long. But it will be important for the test.

Dont lose focus of the test criteria. The army dont do cycling or skieing test. Counrting calories of machines does not always equate well to real life weight loss as for keeping you heart in the fat burning zone this is largley twadel.

To start burning fat rapidly you exercise for more than 90 minutes so as to use up all carbydrate reserves. You body then switches to burning fat. It takes a while to build up your fat burning capabilites but this is far beyond what army fitness is about.

To lose weight outside. For passing the army running test run as hard as you can for 15 minutes every day or second. If you cant run for 15 do 10 or 5.

Spending hours on cross trainers taking doddgy reading of machines is not using time. I would not worry about heart beat too much at your level unless you are old or have a disorder. Focus on what you have to do in the test and pratice it. Lose weight because it will make it easier and you will look more suitable army is a lot image i think. If you have a set weight level you have to get to try as said if you cant quite get dehydrate by not drinking for 24 hours before weight check and drink wine if you can be arsed.
 
#16
Outcast said:
Aerobic exercise is the best for fat burning, cycling or jogging are generally good but its all to no avail unless you reduce the amount of calorie intake which will be difficult as the exercise will make you hungry. Keep your fluid intake up with constant rehydration with water. Just make sure all the running you do isn't to the pantry!!! ;-)
I keep seeing this statement on ARRSE, it isn't necessarily true. Usually, increasing output (IE doign some exercise) is enough.

There is no easier answer to losing weight than...expend more calories than you intake
Wahey, we have a winner!

RDA for a male is 2500kcl
RDA is pretty meaningless for untrained populations, and completely redundant for those in training/athletes.

JayCam, listen hard, you will NOT lose fat in a week. Nothing that you'd be able to physically measure. All you have lost from that silly weight-loss diet will be water and stored carb (glycogen), of which, you will return to your normal weight as soon as you resume eating normally, if not weight gain as a result of f-cking up thyroid fucntion and insulin sensitivity.

Zedd said:
This fella isn't preparing for a one day event though Jay, he's going to have to lose weight and then maintain his weight. Crash dieting will only hinder him in the long term.
Great advise mate.

hopefulrecruit said:
I lost 3stone from april-august.
I did mainly weight training.
Lifting heavy means that the muscles need lots of energy to recover, so your burning calories for 2days after your work out, (not just while your running). And, your using every muscle in your body to burn up energy rather than just lower body.

my basic program was 30-45mins heavy lifting 3times a week.
1x30mins rowing/week
1x30min run/week
1x15mile walk/week

I ended up eatting the same amount of calories as I did when I was 14stone. but i ate at the right times. like before and after exercise rather than late at night before bed.
On face value of it, this also sounds like good advice.

Ignore all the above half baked bull.
My sentiments exactly.

dansrockin, in answer to your question, do both types of running! Mix it up, vary it, enjoy it, try and get outside as much as possible rather than running on a treadmill.
You might find this interesting: http://www.sailgb.com/sshop/tech_info.asp?ID=170

Also, the weights yeild huge benefits so introduce weight training if possible, focused around heavy weights and big, compound exercises.
 
#17
thanks for all the responses, lots to mull over. i had been doing some weights but i was worried about the lack of weight loss as muscle weighs more than fat.
as i said, i fully understand that the only real way to get there is use more calories than i take in, but somethings are better at expending those calories than others!
hopefulrecruit, what sort of exercises were you doing on the heavy weights, and what amount/sets?
cheers
dan
 
#18
dansrockin said:
but i was worried about the lack of weight loss as muscle weighs more than fat.
If you are new to weights, you have the benefit of gaining a good bit of lean muscle no matter what, so even in a slight calorie deficit, you can improve your body composition. The extra muscle will work in your favour, not detrimental to your fat burning efforts.

dansrockin said:
what sort of exercises were you doing on the heavy weights, and what amount/sets?
Compounds, based around the big 3: squats, deadlifts and presses. Depends how many days you want to dedicate to weights. Let me know and I'll give you a split to suit. Different muscle groups and different people respond to rep ranges differently, but somewhere between 5 and 12 reps at a weight you can just about manage the said number of is a good place to start.
Although I don't like it myself, a lot of people advocate some gentle cardio straight after weights (before consuming any food) in a bid to burn a little extra BF.
 
#19
1manriot, thanks for that. i tend to go in to the gym at least 4 times a week, normally for around 90 mins. i tend to do 15-20 mins on the weights, alternating between mainly upper body one day and mainly lower the next, and then around an hour on cv stuff.
if you can come up with an idea of what i should be doing on those days as far as weights are concerned, id love to hear it.
cheers
dan
 
#20
Please don't fixate on 'weight', i.e. what the scales show unless you can get a gucci pair that show % of body fat. In fact, I'd say lay of the scales all together. Eat sensibly, don't cut down, CUT OUT the crap in your diet and drink lots of water. Unless you have a start date, don't kick the arrse out of it, you're doing fine by actually getting of your arrse and down the gym with a worthwhile goal in front of you for motivation.

Try monitoring your girth (fatest bit round your gut) with a tape measure once a week and you'll see the inches/cms drop off and the scales can go fcuk themselves!
 

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