Which is now The Best MBT in the World...

#1
There I was sat on the 'Khazi' reading 'Janes Defense'...(NO SUNDAY SPORT..) and was more than surprised to read that according to that 'Font of all Defense knowledge' that the M1A2, is apparently the best MBT available in the World today...
Am I missing something here? From what I can see CR2 is a far superior MBT than the M1A2, and without doubt Leopard 2, and a few more as well!! (Not forgetting the new 'highly upgraded' Eastern European MBT's..)
Where are these people getting their info from??
Opinions gratefully received!
(PS. CR1 is better than that 'piece of S%&t..)
(In fact, 'Bollox' Chieftain was!) :thumright:
 
#2
What makes the M1A2 the best according to Janes?

Isn't CR2 the only armour not to be defeated in Iraq? (touch wood).
 
#3
Totally proved to be dingerr! Thats my point, would love for somebody to have proof to back this statement up!!
 
#4
Probably down to what your definition of MBT is, ie the Yanks and others have a squillion Abrams and there are only a few hundred Cr2s.
 
#5
I came across this documentary extract that claimed the Leopard2 was "The best tank in the world". Ok it was only a TV programme but I couldn't help wondering where they got the opinion from.
Some interesting/amusing footage mind:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KxdEtyxa7Ao

So how do the main contenders from east and west compare? I always understood that T80 was a fairly kinky piece of kit but I suppose it's fairly dated now.
 
#6
Reason Abrams is rated as high as it is?, simple. The Abrams has all the 'sexy' kit and such. What most people seem to miss though is that the reason the Abrams software and hardware is as clever as it is, is to make up for the inadequacies of its crew. I've seen British crews shift seamlessly from full on "gun kit doing its job" mode to suck it and see rev modes. They don't miss a beat.The sort of degradation they can work around is something that I suspect Americans would have 'issues' with. Don't get me wrong I know in an ideal world the kit will never fail and thus it will never be a problem but we all know different don't we?
From the point of veiw of engines and transmission which os more my thing (I'll leave the finer points of gunnery to all you gunnery gods)
1. Chally 2 pack CAN be taken out by a good crew in a very quick time, not as quick as Leopard 2 but 'in the ballpark'. I've done it myself.
2. Chally 2 pack can be split into its constituent parts MUCH quicker than leopard. I was given the figure of 180 man hours to split a leopard pack fully when I visited 7 instahlzetsung battalion (apologies for crap spelling)
Chally 2 split time? in the region of 4 man hours.
3. Abrams uses 8 gallons of fuel to start from cold.
4. While the TN37 box was a clunker the TN54 box is good.
5. The CV12 is basically a reliable lump. Sure it could do with a couple of hundred more horses but then if you listen to ANY tank crew from ANY country they all want more power.
6. My only issue with Chally 2 is the track but then you guys already know about that one. :D
7. I leave my area of expertise here and so fully expect to get metaphorically 'slapped about' but, the Americans tried to improve their armour by adding DU, but it seems that in Dorchester we still have the best.
 
#7
I feel I need to spout! Not necessarily wisdom but at least my thoughts.

There was a time when Chieftain was becoming rapidly obsolete, MI and Leo 2 had stormed across the Uluh and the MOD was desperate.

Rumours actually abounded all over the shop that the UK wouldn't build another MBT due to cost, they actually considered M1 to be a better option and we were up in arms. Having witnessed broken M1's on FTX and actually having played with a Leo2....... The Leo won hands down. But, Brit we wanted and thanks to a job lot of redundant Shir tanks at Leeds or somewhere we got Chally 1. Shame the gun kit was obsolete for the speeds that Chally could achieve but, never mind CR2 is now in action and mighty fine it looks, haven't played but, my chance may come on some sort of old boy get together!!

Every country that builds an MBT builds it combining the 3 carachteristics to suit their own needs. Leo was built for example paying attention to mobility above protection because, in their eyes, the Germans believe mobility is a form of protection in it's own right. Their doctrine was always attack is the best form of defence and, if, during the cold war, hostilities had begun, the german divisions would have been somewhere around Vladivostock the day after!! TTTTTWWWWWAAAAAATTTTTSSSSSS!

After the unsuccessful MBT 80 project everyone dissappeared sniggering that they'd either......nicked the next tttwwwaaattttssss work or, taken their own 'best practice' away with them. You'll notice there is only one 'Chobham' armour though. The Yanks and Hun don't dare call there's by that name, it's simply 'composite', Why? Well cos they didn't get it off our shrewd white coated chaps? Hydrogas was attempted on Leo and possibly M1? Wouldn't work so they are stuck with their own crap.

BEST TANK IN THE WORLD???? GOT TO BE CR2!!!!IT'S BLEDDY BRIT AND WE INVENTED THE DAMN THINGS!!!!!!!
 

AlienFTM

MIA
Book Reviewer
#8
grey_mafia said:
There I was sat on the 'Khazi' reading 'Janes Defense'...(NO SUNDAY SPORT..) and was more than surprised to read that according to that 'Font of all Defense knowledge' that the M1A2, is apparently the best MBT available in the World today...
The Abrams is NOT AVAILABLE.

The last new Abrams rolled off the production line in 1993. There are two megafactories (one in Florida and one in Ohio IIRC: see Megafactories on Discovery or wherever) which take existing Abrams, strip them to components and rebuild and mod them.

They are therefore in a closed loop in the same way Scorpion was Scorpoled and Chieftain was Bargepoled and therefore NOT AVAILABLE to buy or borrow or whatever. So Jane's are wrong on that count.

Then, as others have pointed out, whereas according to Megafactories, no Abrams has ever lost to another tank, a shower of RPGs is not a healthy environment for the Abrams.

I am sure California Tanker will have something to say.

;o)
 
#10
IMHO the Abrams in the guise of it's latest iteration the M1A2 SEP, Leopard 2A6 and the CR2 are all evenly matched! They all have thier strengths and all have an 'Achilles Heal'. No one has mentioned the 'Cheese Eating Surrender Monkey's' Leclerc' which looks good and has some good write ups, but I don't think is protected as well as the 'Big 3'!!! 8O
 
#13
Has to be CR2, Possibly leopard 2 a close 2nd.
CR2 does have its problems, But like stated above its armour is yet to be defeated and despite popular belief it is fast, well! fast enough.
Like Humph said it lacks all the gadgets that M1A2 has but the crew more than make up for it. As long as the BV works then the the crew will fight the tank even when the "Oh my Christ" switch has been used you can safely know that the tank will withstand anything that the enemy can throw at it. As some SCOTSDG can confirm.

Grey_mafia, Check your PM's
 
#14
vandyke said:
Has to be CR2, Possibly leopard 2 a close 2nd.
CR2 does have its problems, But like stated above its armour is yet to be defeated and despite popular belief it is fast, well! fast enough.
Like Humph said it lacks all the gadgets that M1A2 has but the crew more than make up for it. As long as the BV works then the the crew will fight the tank even when the "Oh my Christ" switch has been used you can safely know that the tank will withstand anything that the enemy can throw at it. As some SCOTSDG can confirm.

Grey_mafia, Check your PM's
Isn't the CR2E the best tank in the world :? If so why can't we have it :?
 
#16
Abrams may not have a BV but it does have a microwave to be fair...

It also has massive fuel consumption, no rev modes and a general over-reliance on technology. On the other hand, a couple of monkeys could crew it (once they have finished revising Hamlet of course). We have BCR issues which the US

Leopard 2 is extremely mobile and like Abrams has a good smooth bore gun. I'm still not entirely convinced that we got the rifled cannon right. Job no.1 for MBTs remains killing other MBTs and the best way to do that seems to be a long rod penetrator (fnarr).

I reckon we should get the A Team to make us a new MBT from stuff they find in the garage.
 
#17
Abrams and leo use the same gun, it a german smooth bore, we use the good old rifled gun and our main advantage is we can shoot a hell of a lot further with it.
long rod penetrator ammo is used and its more effective than theirs.
As others have posted our main advantage is in our crews.
 
#20
soprano54 said:
vandyke said:
Rifled bore wins,
And our APFSDS is more than capable of doing the job as This Link testifies.
14 enemy armour destroyed.
Erm thanks for the music lesson - 'Blowing your own Trumpet'! But were'nt most of those enemy tanks abandoned!!! 8O
Always preffered to bang my own drum, I wasn't involved in any of that action.
Abandoned or not they were still destroyed. The point of the post was to say that our rifled gun and Ammo is more than suitable for the job.

I do believe that they are trialling a CR2 with a leopard 2 barrel, this will allow us to use nato standard ammo.
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Blind_Pew RAC 105
A The Intelligence Cell 36
quiller The Intelligence Cell 12

Similar threads

Latest Threads

Top