Where They Fell

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by JoeCivvie, Nov 13, 2010.

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  1. BiscuitsAB

    BiscuitsAB LE Moderator

  2. Aden was before my time but 68 killed seems to be way too few?
  3. You make your remark sound as though that was not enough.

    Would you care to clarify/rephrase your last comment?
  4. jim24

    jim24 Book Reviewer

  5. Wind yer neck in!I remember Aden when there were British dying nearly every other day during the last year,these figures appear to me me to be too low,almost as If they´ve been cleansed of Marines, RAF etc,If they are accurate,great but I don´t think they tell the whole story!

    Oh God not another Monkey on arrse!

    edited to add,the Imperial War Museum only shows casualties for the last 4 years, the Aden´s Veterans List goes from ´55 to ´68 so take your shoes and socks off and start counting;)

  6. Quick to take offence over a legit question.

    Forget to your meds ?
  7. I took offense to it in that it came across from Midnight like an anti-Brit Mil sentiment, in the same vein that a scum-sucking fuckstick like Michael Henry would say '740 Brit Mil dead in NI-was that all?'

    It wasn't meant as a slight to Midnight. If it came across that way then I apologise.

    And no I'm not a ******* monkey, ex or otherwise. I main-line those ******* for shits and giggles.
  8. jim24

    jim24 Book Reviewer

    Actualy Aden goes back to WW1 when the SWB fought the Turks
  9. I believe you are right, casualty figures are surprisingly difficult to determine and without knowing the criteria for the IWM's figures, it's difficult to make a judgement. Do they, for example include numbers for Aden Colony or the Protectorate,( the Radfan and elsewhere) or both?

    The BBC's other quoted source can be left out of it because CWGC don't have a responsibility for the figures of that period.

    The Aden Veteran's Roll is not necessarily a good indication if you are counting deaths by terrorist or dissident tribesmen action, as it includes all military who died in Aden plus some civilians if they were killed by terrorist action. Some will have been natural causes, some will have died in accidents. One of the last soldiers on the AVA list, killed in Aden was killed by a faulty vacuum cleaner [No, I'm not making light of it, and I firmly believe he has a right to be on the Roll but he's probably not in the IWM list if KIA is their criterion]

    Although the list goes back to 1957, the state of emergency in Aden only really started in Dec 1963 with a grenade attack at Khormaksar. There had been some deaths up-country prior to that up-country which certainly deserve to be commemorated but these were outside the period of the Aden Campaign.
  10. Well I took my shoes and socks off and counted those on the Aden Veteran´s list from 1963 onwards and there´s 199(2 civilians) which is a long way off 68,if it wasn´t such a tragic waste of life I´d say somebody is either taking the piss,didn´t do their reserch properly or has some political agenda for keeping the true numbers low?

    Something stinks!
  11. Hum! Governments have been known to 'massage' unpleasant facts. Hum!
  12. Something does!

    I can see where the IWM got the figure of 68; it came from an answer in the House of Commons by Mr. Goronwy Roberts MP made in 1967 after the pull out

    "Betwen the beginning of the emergency in December, 1963, and the end of August this year (1967) when the Federal Government ceased to function a total of 83 United Kingdom persons (68 Servicemen and 15 civilians) lost their lives in South Arabia",

    However a further answer in 1991 came up with;
    "Radfan/Aden 1964–67, British Servicemen Killed- 98"

    There is a Roll of Honour for the Aden campaign on display at the Garrison Church in Aldershot but it only represents army casualties. It is actually in Book of Remembrance form and under lock and key so not possible to do a quick tally. There appears to be no corresponding list of the names in the book available or indeed the number of entries.

    The sad, and probably scandalous thing, is that as far as I'm aware, no true list exists. Certainly not one available to the general public

    The most accurate and complete, as far as individuals go, is the National Roll of Honour/National Armed Forces Memorial at the National Arboretum. I believe the MOD staff who compiled it did a first class job, the info certainly wasn't available at the press of a computer key.

    But even so, despite its accuracy, I doubt that the total of Aden deaths could be obtained from that data as it doesn't classify by theatre, only by place of burial (or cremation) Even that wouldn't be an accurate indication as some died after being casevac'd to UK and some were repatriated either at the time, or since.

    There are 136 graves in Silent Valley Cemetery (1965-1967) and those in Ma'ala Cemetery, dating after 1st Jan 1964, total 55.