Where is Adolf

#1
A skull long believed to be that of Adolf Hitler actually belonged to a woman, according to an American scientist who has taken DNA samples from it.

The skull was taken by Soviet forces in 1945 when they found charred remains outside the Nazi dictator's bunker in Berlin.

The Russians said at the time that the findings backed claims that Hitler had shot himself on April 30, 1945, and then been cremated along with his wife, Eva Braun.

Now, however, archaeologist and bone specialist Nick Bellantoni says the skull really belonged to a woman aged under 40 and not Hitler - who was 56 when he died.

Neither does Mr Bellantoni believe the skull belongs to Braun, Hitler's long-time girlfriend and last-minute wife, who is thought to have killed herself by taking cyanide and would therefore not have had a bullet wound - as this skull has.

The Russians say they have never claimed the skull itself was the chief reason for their belief the skull was Hitler's.

Instead, they point to dental records as confirmation that Hitler killed himself.

Some historians have believed for years that the Nazi dictator did not die in Berlin.

"There is no forensic evidence whatsoever that Hitler died in the bunker," historian and journalist Gerrard Williams told Sky News Online.

"The Nazi high command had been making plans since 1943 to get out of Germany and to set up a Fourth Reich mainly in South America so they had no need to die in situ in Germany.

"There was a very effective route out of Germany to South America and the Nazis had help from various factions, in particular a Croatian cardinal from the Vatican called Alois Hudel.

"As for the dental records, they were destroyed on the orders on Martin Borman in 1944. So there were no records on top Nazi leaders with which to compare the charred findings."

One reason why there was such a belief at the end of World War II that the skull was Hitler's, Mr Williams suggests, is that everyone needed Hitler to be dead.

"Everyone wanted to close the chapter very quickly because, of course, the Cold War was just starting up. It was convenient, that's all."

Now if Mossad can track down Ricardo Klement then surely they can find out where Cpl Hitler lies.
 
#3
_Chimurenga_ said:


I always assumed he ended up in Argentina.
I always assumed he had plastic surgery and became Peter Mandleson.
 
#4
InVinoVeritas said:
_Chimurenga_ said:


I always assumed he ended up in Argentina.
I always assumed he had plastic surgery and became Peter Mandleson.
I heard he was killed in a burning mica after a binge-fest
 
T

Tremaine

Guest
#5
Having been interested in this for some twenty odd years, I'd concluded that his teeth had been taken to his Berlin dentist by the Russians and identified against his records. Other stories tell of his remains (skull and jawbone?) being buried in a Magdeburg Forest and then moved again when the Eastern Bloc fell.

If this is all untrue and Hitler's remains weren't eventually moved to the Kremlin (where they are supposed to be) where are they then? And were they ever found?
 
#6
I watched a documentary ages ago that says that hitler and eva braun's bodies were discovered by a NKVD task force set up for this one task then got half way home through poland. They stopped for the night and burried the remains in ammo cases in a wood. Other ivan units saw them do this thinking "mmm sumat shiney" dug em up and found the bones and scattered them. The NKVD left em like this and it stayed like this untill the 80's when the KGB went and stripped the place to stop Neo-Nazies turning the place into some kind of memorial. They then distroyed all the remains.

This may not bee 100% accurate as it was a very long time ago i saw this.

*Edit* oh except his jawbone which they kept and is in the kremlin/some russian archive
 
#9
The one bit that intrigues me is not the skull - there are various stories about the fate of the skeletons, but the "absence of forensic evidence" (such as it was in 1945) that they died in the bunker.

Certainly, with careful pre-planning, it would have been possible for them to fake their deaths and for a very small group of informed people to smuggle the "corpses" outside, where they could have been spirited away. Given the many accounts from the bunker, it would be fairly easy to isolate those who were in close enough proximity to verify death (or otherwise) and cross-reference to establish whether such a secret could have been kept.

Given Hitler's state of mind at the end though, I doubt a life in South America would have held much appeal, although I've always been surprised that Eva Braun took this way out: she would probably have got away with 10 years imprisonment had she lived.

If any death was faked, I'd say it would have been Eva Braun...
 
#10
Interesting tale.
Can't have imagine any NKVD type going back and telling Uncle Joe they had failed to find Adolf's remains.
If he survived then he is certainly dead by now, but as with all conspiracy's surely some more credible evidence of Life would have surfaced by now.
john
 
#11
jonwilly said:
Interesting tale.
Can't have imagine any NKVD type going back and telling Uncle Joe they had failed to find Adolf's remains.
If he survived then he is certainly dead by now, but as with all conspiracy's surely some more credible evidence of Life would have surfaced by now.
john
Not if you had a REAL incentive to keep your head down... think witness protection with attitude.

Additionally, think of the D Day deception plan, its not inconceivable that the Germans had a cunning deception plan too.

Shave off the tash, wear a blonde wig... give a few inspirational speeches... marry Dennis.
 
#12
On a lighter note will anyone put through a FOI request to the Met for a thorough search of the Albert hall. Or do we have to outsource to these chaps for that onehttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c8/Adventures_in_the_Rifle_Brigade_no_1.png
 
#13
I'm pretty sure that the Jews (Simon Wiesenthal, Ari (Something)baum, Mossad and loads of others) weren't initially convinced that Hitler was dead. I remember reading a book yonks ago about the hunt for former Nazis. The title had "patience" in it, something like "Patience is a Virtue", but I'm not sure about that.

Anyway, it detailed how all these organisations found loads of ex-Nazis all over the world, but they couldn't lift them. So they sent in kieni-mieni teams to top 'em instead. If Hitler and Eva Braun had done a runner, it's almost certain that these folks would've found them.

MsG
 
#15
"Shave off the tash, wear a blonde wig... give a few inspirational speeches... marry Dennis. "

Ah now please tell us about this Dennis ya wants ta wed.
john
This is an adult board so don't worry Most folk will understand about your 'Tendencies'.
That's understand not approve.
 

_Chimurenga_

LE
Gallery Guru
#16
Bugsy said:
I'm pretty sure that the Jews (Simon Wiesenthal, Ari (Something)baum, Mossad and loads of others) weren't initially convinced that Hitler was dead. I remember reading a book yonks ago about the hunt for former Nazis. The title had "patience" in it, something like "Patience is a Virtue", but I'm not sure about that.

Anyway, it detailed how all these organisations found loads of ex-Nazis all over the world, but they couldn't lift them. So they sent in kieni-mieni teams to top 'em instead. If Hitler and Eva Braun had done a runner, it's almost certain that these folks would've found them.

MsG
Yes, the State of Israel was not in very pecunious straits in it's early days and simply couldn't afford to kidnap and bring to trial all these war criminals (until the abduction of Eichmann in 1960).

The official name for the Mossad assassination department was KIDON (hebrew - "bayonet").
 
#18
I have a book 'The Death Of Hitler' by Ada Petrova And Peter Watson, which cites that full post mortem examinations were made by our old friend The 3rd Shock Army. Along with the Goebbels tribe. Dental records recovered from the dental office in the Reichschanz were used to identify the body.

Incidentally the jaw was loose in the jaw cavity (How?) and it was the bridgework which they used to confirm a match.

I think we might be safe though, he would be 160 odd, but then again maybe with VEng he could still be serving...............
 
#19
Poacher said:
Incidentally the jaw was loose in the jaw cavity (How?) and it was the bridgework which they used to confirm a match.
The jaw always WILL be loose..what do you mean 'how'?
 

Alsacien

MIA
Moderator
#20
Ask the British intelligence services what Martin Borman told them after they had smuggled him out of Berlin.

Gorby said he ordered Hitler/Braun remains destroyed in the aftermath of the wall - they were in an unmarked grave in the grounds of a KGB building IIRC.
 
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