Where do you draw the line?

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by Snips, Jul 25, 2002.

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  1. We have a guy in the TA and he is a little mentally challenged, shall we say.
    He suffers from a bad stutter and a severe lack of co-ordination and his admin is shite.
    He has been in for a number of years and has so far failed to pass his APWT. Before now, this wasn't a major, major problem as the TA requested that you 'attempt' it and not 'pass' it as a requirement for bounty.
    Now, however, the rules have changed and you must PASS you APWT. Quite right too, I say, if you can't shoot the enemy what's the point of being a soldier.
    Anyway, this chap has been offered much one on one/remedial training, but to no avail. His problem seems to be 1) his group size is the size of Asia, 2) he cannot co-ordinate different firing positions and concentrate on the hold of his weapon and 3) he just isn't going to get it.
    Now where do you draw the line and put this so called soldier in a role where he will be better off or ideally get rid of him altogether?
    Oh and the other thing is, he is black and has claimed racial discrimination in the past (of course this was unfounded).
  2. Bad CO

    Bad CO LE Admin Reviews Editor Gallery Guru

    Unfortunately approx 10-15% of regular soldiers are in the same boat... they couldn't pass an APWT if you gave them a SUSAT!
  3. So what do you do with them? I suppose it's a lot easier to get rid of a TA soldier as they have a civvie job to fall back on, but to a regular soldier this is their full time job. :-/
  4. Bad CO

    Bad CO LE Admin Reviews Editor Gallery Guru

    Obviously you keep them as you don't have enough anyway.  If you got rid of them thenit would mean more op tours/guard duties for all the decent soldiers who would then leave, etc
  5. It doesn’t really matter whether they can pass an APWT anyway the weapon is likely to jam after the first round in combat.

    It is just good to have them around you, gives the enemy someone else to shoot at.
  6. The only use that this soldier provides, is someone for the rest of the company to take the p*ss out of.
  7. It seems to me that you get this sort of person in many areas of the TA/Army. The touble is that once you've had them there for a couple of years, if you change the goal posts, even if it is to where they were supposed to be in the first place, they are quite within their rights to say "Well I was all right last year, I got the tick in the box then and I'm at the same standard as I was then, what's changed?"

    You say that standards have changed when on paper they haven't and the lawyers are going to have a field day.

    The only way to stop this sort of thing is to set standards for recriut entry and stick to them. If their standards improve, all well and good, if they get worse then you have the grounds to do something about it. No more sending regular soldiers to their first regiment having not passed an APWT or APFA yet.

    If he has never passed an APWT the officially he's never passed recriut training and as an untrained soldier you can dump him at any time.... expect some flack on grounds of race discrimination though. An OC with ba11s and enough evidence on paper should be able to ride that one though.

    Consider the soapbox stepped down from  ::)
  8. words 'Hold won't breath my'  spring to mind.
  9. From my experience that sort of "no-hoper" tends to get lost amongst the QM's empire as a permanent GD man.  As long as they know they are military knackers they seem quite happy to work in the various messes doing the menial sh1tty jobs.  It is when they are convinced they are steely eyed trained killers that the problems set in.
  10. I'm with Plant Pilot on this one, the standards are there (and have become better defined in recent years) so it is a case of enforcing them.  (Mind you, I also agree with Bad CO that you are often better off having one extra warm body to help stag on, even if he is kelp!)

    The difficulty comes when people have been turning a blind eye to personnel not achieving mandated standards for some time, but then suddenly start enforcing them.  The best time to try and turn this around is with a new OC, but as long as the standards are are officially laid down and uniformly applied there is not much anyone can say about it.  Of course, if you suddenly start demanding that this particular soldier must pass his APWT but "paper pass" anyone else in the unit he would have a genuine case for discrimination, racial or otherwise.

    I've only had experience of infantry TA units, where passing APWT has always been mandatory and a condition of bounty.  If, as you say, the rules have changed regarding passing APWT for your unit, this could be an ideal opportunity to show that this guy is not up to the job and start building up evidence to SNLR him as an oxygen thief.  Regardless of this particular case, however, the best policy is to enforce the mandated standards at every level, and ensure every soldier understands that being below the minimum is not acceptable.  If this means the OC or SQMS have to lose a bit of weight to pass their TACFT, so much the better!

    Sorry, I seem to have gone into one.  Rant over and good luck with sorting out Mr Sniff Test.
  11. Hey, we got two of those too, (should I say had 2 now got 1) No 1 was easy, he was so stupid he saluted me (a SNCO) and called me Corporal at the same time. He was just talked into resigning, "do you really think you should be here son?" after the 10th time of asking he said no and before he could change his mind he had signed a piece of paper to say just that. Bingo!

    Now No 2; he needs to were a eye patch to fire, co-ordination of a pi55ed up crab and generally a hindrance but that was when he first turned up, the transformation in the fella is amazing. It used to be he walked in the bar and it was like he had sh1t himself, "BOMB BURST" but he was given the chance (only because the unit was playing the numbers game mind), he has improved his civvi job, he has travelled far across the globe (on his own), he can hold a decent conversation on most subjects and he is genuinely a nice guy!

    Some, if not most of that transformation is down to his interaction within the TA, some times its worth hanging on to people. ;)

    But S_B in your case MAG to GRID, just get it done properly and try if possible to pay some attention to the guys feelings. It’ll be easier in the end.  :)
  12. I understand Sniper_Birds' frustration with this individual.

    He is mad keen, there for everything etc, but a total frustration.

    As she mentioned, numerous people have tried to coach him, myself amongst others, but it's incredible. The lesson will remain with him, right up to the point the rangemeister says "Load" then it's the fast lane to bag o' bollox city.

    There are other less desirable character traits to this individual, which I won't go into in great detail. Suffice to say, he falls short of recruiting poster material.

    But we all keep trying, because maybe, just maybe, he's one of those "Zero in peacetime, Hero in wartime" individuals?

    Blimey Sniper_Bird, I can hear you screaming from here -lol
  13. No PTP, let's go into his other 'traits' so people can see what we have to put up with.
    This guy's admin is sh*t, every weekend he has to have a JNCO help him pack his bergin correctly, even then he usually hasn't bought the right kit. i.e no warm, dry kit when rain is forecast. Occasionally turns up without his doss bag and has to use draw one out of the stores. Loses kit frequently. Has a serious BO problem, he does PT, doesn't shower and then comes in the bar. Of course, I refuse to serve him until he showers. He turns up to waiter for regimental dinners and the guests complain of the smell as he leans over them, he turns up in a shirt that could be used in a persil advert 'we added several stains to this shirt to see if this washing powder could get them out' he just forgets the washing powder bit.
    He has a stutter (I know we shouldn't mock the afflicted) but it takes him two hours to get one sentence out.
    He has a problem retaining information and a co-ordination problem i.e. can't march for toffee.

    So that is what we have to deal with and at first it was fun but now people are getting a bit sick of him.
  14. Perhaps he needs his own individual mission statement?

    Something like:

    No1 rifleman, double forward and draw enemy fire so that we can locate them by their muzzle flashes :D
  15. he wouldn't need to draw enemy fire, he just needs to stand there with his arms in the air and if the enemy are down wind of him, the stench will kill them!! :p