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where do i stand now?

#1
hi i am waiting for my start date to go back in to the army. i told my boss sometime back that i would be leaving for the forces in a few months and he said thats fine thanks for telling me. i was out with my gf in london and was bottled in the face and i was told to go on the sick for a week so my wounds would heal with out getting any sh*t in them. i rang my boss on the monday morning and told him what happend and he then said ring me on thursday, so thursday came i rang him and he said he wanted to talk to me on the friday morning. when i went to speak to him he said he would have to sack me because i didn't have a driving license. but when i first started the job i didn't have to have a license because i worked in the warehouse. is this enough reason to sack me? or do you think he sacked me because i was leaving for the army and also can i be sacked whilst on the sick?
 
#2
Can't see it makes any difference. You are joining the army either way.

Unless of course you thought you could still fit in a few hours here and there
 
#4
You will have a job description. On that description it will tell you what you needed for the role your where doing.

Having said that, its not legally binding, for example, I lectured for 4 and a bit years without a degree, although the description clearly said the role required one.

I think he has no leg to stand on and I would be talking to a trade union or the CAB
 
#5
Certainly sounds like he's trying to cut you loose to save on the sick pay. If you've mutually agreed a point in the future at which your employment is to terminate, then all your usual employment rights operate until then (including the right not to be unfairly dismissed). The only way what you boss has done is legal is if he can claim that "for the needs of the business" you (specifically you) are now required to drive.
For advice on the next practical steps you can take, I strongly recommend popping in to your local Citizens Advice Bureau, they'll have a good employment law team who can point you in the right direction.
Hope that helps.
 
#7
Would seem to be unlawful dismissal (he's finding a reason to dismiss you on spurious grounds). As far as the driver's license part goes, how long have you been working at the warehouse? If it's a relatively long time (>1 year), you'll find that their allowing you to work without a driver's license legitmises your employment at law..........their decision can't be arbitrary. At the least they should have provided you with the opportunity (and the time, and perhaps cost) to acquire one.

More interesting question is whether you've lost a driver's license during your employment. Whilst we're at it.......is your bottle/face issue going to create a criminal record for you?

Punchline is that, prima face, they don't have grounds to fire you IF this was the only reason given.
 
P

PrinceAlbert

Guest
#9
JonnoJonno said:
If you've worked there for less than a year you're buggered
Technically not true if you have the balls to take them to court. As an employee your employer has to afford you the rights, and duty of care etc from day one week one.
 
#10
PrinceAlbert said:
JonnoJonno said:
If you've worked there for less than a year you're buggered
Technically not true if you have the balls to take them to court. As an employee your employer has to afford you the rights, and duty of care etc from day one week one.
Fair one, However with his start date looming it might not be the sort of distraction he needs.
 
P

PrinceAlbert

Guest
#11
JonnoJonno said:
PrinceAlbert said:
JonnoJonno said:
If you've worked there for less than a year you're buggered
Technically not true if you have the balls to take them to court. As an employee your employer has to afford you the rights, and duty of care etc from day one week one.
Fair one, However with his start date looming it might not be the sort of distraction he needs.
So you think he should "roll over" and take it like a biatch?! Sod that.....
 
#12
ive worked there for around 13-14 months. the job stated when i took it that i would be working in a warehouse and would only need warehouse experience. BANKER ive never had my driving license just a provisional and i was the victim with the bottle issue.
 
#13
Find any original paperwork if you have it, saying you have the job and the duties required etc. Payslips with clock number and dept on etc.

A witness from the same dept would be good, but very unlikely to stick his neck out as he may feel intimidated.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/Dismissal/DG_10026692

Get as much together as quickly as poss then send a letter recorded delivery telling him you think he has shafted you and you are going for unfair dismissal.

Don't get excited by the thought of a big payout, you will get your wages while you were out of work and that's about it. He may quickly offer an out of court settlement of 30% less which may suit both of you.
 
#14
Taffnp said:
Find any original paperwork if you have it, saying you have the job and the duties required etc. Payslips with clock number and dept on etc.

A witness from the same dept would be good, but very unlikely to stick his neck out as he may feel intimidated.

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/RedundancyAndLeavingYourJob/Dismissal/DG_10026692

Get as much together as quickly as poss then send a letter recorded delivery telling him you think he has shafted you and you are going for unfair dismissal.

Don't get excited by the thought of a big payout, you will get your wages while you were out of work and that's about it. He may quickly offer an out of court settlement of 30% less which may suit both of you.
I think the wheels on the "outrage bus" are starting to speed out of control. There are two sides to every story. Sounds like there has been a "personality clash", and in my experience there is normally a good reason for these.
 
#15
Normally, you should have a verbal warning, written warning then endex, as stated previously, write to him confirming the telephone conversation that you have been sacked for not having a driving licence, inform him that you have worked for ex time without one and you have recived no formal change in your job spec or you have recived no disiplinary proceedings to warrant your dismisal.

therefore you consider that your dismisal may be unlawful (always use the term "MAY BE") so you intend to apply for an employment tribunal to establish the basis of the legality of your dismisal

All ways be factual and to the point in your correspondance......even though you want to call him a cnut
 
#16
when i first started the job i never signed a contract for my working hours and other things. ive never had a wage slip but i know i was on the books because i got a new tax code. and im not sure if i will get a p45 off him iver. should i just got and talk to a solicitor and see what he thinks because ive tryed to get an appointment with the CRB and thay just keep saying thay haven't got any slots avalible
 
#17
OK. As you have been there for over a year your employment rights are protected. Those rights include recourse to a Tribunal for both unfair and constructive dissmisal

Unfair dismissal occurs when your employer terminates your contract of employment without due cause and/or by not following the correct procedure. You ought to have a contract of employment and a job description plus employee handbook. The fact that you don't and never have strengthens your case. In any case you are entitled to expect your employer follows either a discipline or performance management procedure before dismissal. The usual route is oral warning, first written warning, final written warning, dismissal. Some actions on your part could constitute immediate summary dismissal where an employer liegitimately feels that your actions fundamentally break the inherent implicit trust between an employer and employee such as stealing from the company. They would have to prove their case in court and there is something called the Halsbourg Test which is the standard of evidencec required (basically the same standard of proof as required in a civil court case, or proven to the balance of probabilities which is lower than the criminal standard of beyond reasonable doubt). If your performance is lacking (asay you are constantly late) your employer would have to prove they took you through the entire warning route and supported you in addressing the behaviour through adequate trainingn and support. It is not good enough that they just walk you through a series of warnings week after week without support just to sack you.

Your employer has not acted reasonably and certainly hasn't followed procedure. He would therefore be bang to rights for unfair dismissal. The limit on unfair dismissal claims is £60K. Given you would have only limited expectations of ongoing salary and pension because you had told him you were intending to re-join in the near future you would likely get much less than this in a Tribunal.

You can also calim for Constructive Dismissal. This is much harder to prove as it requires you to evidence that your employer behaved in such a way as to force you to leave of your own accord so that they avoid having to make you redundant or because there was no prospect of you leaving intentionally. In order to win you would have to prove that you had been pretty much a decent employee and that you were being forced out of the door. One way you could do this would be to prove that you weren't required to hold a driving licence and that the requirements of the job had changed and that your employer refused to pay to train you to drive or move you to a job that didn't require you to hold a licence. It would help to have a job description but if your emplolyer never gave you one, or better still refused after you asked and can prove this, it goes towards proving your case.

The bottom line is your employer has behaved illegally. The question is whether you feel it is worthwhile going through the trauma of a Tribunal even though it looks like you would have a reasonably strong case.

If you have a mortgage then you should also have legal protection insurance included with it. That would cover legal action in a Tribunal for unfair and constructive dismissal so you don't need sheds of wedge up front to afford a brief, your insurance should cover it if you can make a strong case.
 
#18
What job were you doing in the Army before, which didn't require a driving licence?
Just being nosey, thought pretty much every trade going would require it?
 
#19
thank you WOOPERT for your advice it has put my mind in the right direction. RACsucker i left phase1 training like a mong big mistake.

Thank you all for your advice and thoughts :D
 
#20
Aaah, I see. Silly boy, its a reet good life once you've passed basic training. Best thing I have ever done is join up.
Good luck and ting, and try to stick it out this time!
 

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