When is something going to be done about the APC?

The catalogue of errors that eminate from the APC has become outrageous. Personally I have had to contest my monthly salary on many occasions and I know that I am certainly not alone in my experiences.

It would be interesting to hear exactly how many of you out there have been affected by this king of Mickey Mouse organisations.
when you all tun up at the front door armed to the teeth
don't be silly 8:30 to 11 they are civil servants so they'll be on flexi time
Intersting stuff!

I've been up to the APC before and found the staff pretty good, in fact very good and very keen.  They all have that typical jock sensible view to things and work very hard.

HOWEVER - the computer systems that they work on are awful in that the APC Computer is totally different to you units UNICOM.  As an example, you get promoted, the clerk does a UNICOM entry and for some stupid reason the computer in the APC rejects the entry.  Neither your Pay Clerk nor the civil servant in the APC are notified of this until either you go banging on the RAOs counter or your pay clerk double checks your pay statement against all UNICOM entries.

I met many of the staff in the APC who had genuine concern for the way the pay statements were all screwed up when they did the year 2000 "fix" to the main-frame and also many who regarded the job that they did with great pride in that they supported the Army.  Please, I know its hard but give them a break!
It may not be the fault of individuals in Glasgow or RAOs, but somebody somewhere, an agency no doubt, should be made accountable for the myriad of c ock ups. They do not even seem to learn from mistakes made. I come across the same gripes wherever I go, involving the same c ock ups.


War Hero
The data from UNICOM goes to Upavon and is transferred to the relevant APC system (CHOtS CSV8 I think).  This causes the delays and some of the errors.  This will all change when UNICOM is integrated onto the rest of the Army restricted system (happening soon).

Errors in pay issue are currently around 75% the responsibility of the Unit pay staff.

Not wishing to be disparaging, but if you pay peanuts, expect nothing more than monkeys.  I'm not wishing to be rude, quite the contrary, but If I was paid around £12k, I would probably not push the boat out!

I have had the pleasure of working with many of the staff in the past and found them to be pretty good value.
It may not be the fault of individuals in Glasgow or RAOs, but somebody somewhere, an agency no doubt, should be made accountable for the myriad of c ock ups. They do not even seem to learn from mistakes made. I come across the same gripes wherever I go, involving the same c ock ups.
How right you are. I think probably the most common cock up is when they fail to charge for food & accommodation. I know of a person to whom this first happened in August 98. Having written immediately to the APC to point out this error he was surprised to see in September that again he had not been charged for food and accommodation. This process happened again in October. The 'computer' at the APC then decided to recoup its missing cash by charging 3 months in one go on Novembers pay leaving the poor chap with the grand total of £7 pay in December!!!
If i were he I would get a legal opinion on that. My civvy employer used to pull stunts like that till he received a Letter from RCN saying it was ilegal to do it under some employment act or other it may apply to army. Now he has to invite us to payback any over payment  which we offer at 1p/month.
Now that would really throw a spanner in the works!

Imagine how much money that would cost the Army, it would force them to put a good system in place!

If you could dig a bit more on that one please as I would certainly use it for a few past mistakes, especially ones where I have been overpaid an amount (1000 quid after tax), then the same amount is taken out next month but including tax (1300 quid)!!  Pay office said I get the tax back from taxman and that tax was not their problem!
The Army's attitude to servicemen being in debt is realistic and essential. However, I look forward to the time when the 'system' practices what it preaches! :p
when someone is fined on orders can it not be spread over a few months pay? so why can't the APC do the same when they over pay people instead of leaing £7 for a month.
I would sugest talking to citizens advice re the legal bit they might be able to point you in right direction. However remember the army may not be covered by the acts like it has opt outs from so much. But if you can make a case to the AGC pay people they might check it out just to keep themselves right. The thing with mine is I'd a union backing me and in the Army thats against regulations. I know the sugestion of union representation is a touchy subject in military there is advantages to unions and drawbacks advantages:free legal representation,indemnity insurance up to £100,000, education courses, a library, they negioate cheaper financal deals with insurers finance companies etc. And if you are in the shit they provide representation at disciplinary hearings.
Why are there only ever computer problems when the system owes you money? Anyone ever remember there being a system error when the Army wanted to take money from you? I have been trying to get Substitution pay that I am owed for the period June to December (and now December to March as well), since January. I know that Glasgow has the gubbings because I watched it being faxed after the initial Unicom transmission did not work. I keep being told I will have the money in 14 days, but after 3 months that explanation does not cut the mustard anymore. I cant take out my frustration on the local pay staff as I know the delay is in Glasgow. I just wish Glasgow had a Customer Helpline!! Wouldn't mind but it is £3,000. Imagine what they would owe if I was a pilot ;)
Could help you out with a Rifle Platoon, if that's any good?  They'd be undermanned (a bit) but are really quite aggresseive and haven't done all that much FIBUA recently, so would be well up for it.  And as for bayonet practice, what an ideal way of recovering old lessons!

We did an NI tour a couple of years ago, the troops continued to be paid NI pay (as was) from the May until November, notwithstanding many calls to APC.  Guess when it all came out of the troops' pay as a oner?  Happy Christmas!
Ladies and Gents,

before we all sit on the net and slag off an entity that many of us (myself included) have no real idea about (the internal workings etc) How about coming up with a solution to the problem(s), as opposed to stating the obvious.

All the griping will not make the promlems) go away!

But then again, a good kick up the a***e of the 'Fat Cats' holding the purse strings may assist in getting a computer system up and running that solves a problem and opposed to creating one????  ;D ;D ;D
Come on J P A.

I can't wait.

A joke for U, did you hear the one where Orical was make Y2K complient and wiped off Gurkha Pay.  Oh wot fun we have with 200 cash paid (Sldrs and Offrs) people each month.
The most common reason for Pay Problems lies direct with RAO Staff. Perhaps if correct training was given they would know what procedures to follow, how each entry on UNICOM effects another, what allowances no longer exist and in the end...who to contact when something has been ballsed up!!

For example who is responsible for promotion pay in Glasgow??
Glasgows serious faults are fundamental to the problem i just had (check post in this forum "no pay for class 1's").

However now my situation is "resolved", i am merely armed with a bit of paper to authorise my increment. When i get my class 1, the piece of crap system at APC still wont recognise my qualification so i then have to go trotting into RHQ and get them to process it manually!! Just because the useless computer at Glasgow wont accept the change to my details. Wonderful.

And whats the betting it will take at least 6 months to actually go through?
Of course you know what the reply will be - "Just think of all the backpay!" Not the b**dy point Mr Clerk, i want the money on time and Glasgow has a lot to answer for why 1000's of us dont get what we work hard for.

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