When is it OK to jump the CoC?

Discussion in 'Army Reserve' started by StabTiffy2B, Jul 30, 2008.

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  1. Ladies & Gents,

    I'd like to start this thread by saying that this is only in relation to us STABs and the 'unique' environment in which we operate.

    We all know that the army can be a bit of a bureaucratic monster and that some people like their little power empires. However, at the end of the day, we should be about achieving a benefit. This (in my humble opinion) is even more important when it concerns those under your command.

    We also all know that at the end of the drill night or weekend, we all take off our nicely pressed greens and go back to civvy street. Some of us have jobs where we have little power and some of us have jobs where we're the bosses/those making things happen. This can often cause frustration when things don't appear to move at the speed they should. This is often compounded by the fact that the people you need to speak to aren't always at the TAC at the same time (including yourself) and our own part-time status.

    Now the question I pose is when is it OK to leapfrog certain people in your CoC because they aren't going quick enough/don't care/aren't competent enough to do anything in the first place? Should it be a case of if they haven't done anything in a month? Should it be a case of when you've chased them two or three times?

    What if the people who aren't doing anything are (heaven forbid) Regulars or NRPS? Is it a different set of criteria or does it change the scope entirely?

    Thoughts (or previously used examples)?
  2. RP578

    RP578 LE Book Reviewer


    Surely the Regular/NRPS contingent aren't actually in your CofC?
  3. I'm assuming you're talking about your PSI? If there really is a big problem, you could request an interview with the OC. I'd suggest you (1) have a damn good reason for taking this step; and (2) make it clear that it's an unusual occurance on your behalf, or you'll look like a winge.

    You tried having a face to face with the reg staff in question, or got your Plt Sgt/Sgt Mjr to speak on your behalf?

    Don't know the background, but if the majority of the platoon/troop/formation feels there's an issue that's detrimental to the effectiveness of the platoon, then if it can't be sorted out below the radar, needs the SNCO or senior JNCO to speak up to the OC.

    Bypassing personalities in your CoC can fcuk them off and give them the impression you can't play the game, or you and possibly more junior ranks/JNCOs feel you don't have the confidence in the missed-out ranks to back you all up.

    Don't forget though, things swing in roundabouts. It could bite you at a later date.
  4. Assumptions, assumptions :D

    Some of the problem is in the regular bit of the CoC, some in the TA bit.

    Not fussed about it biting me in the arrse. It already has to a point. Without going into the detail, my personal concern is for my apprentice who's about to get shafted. However, I was after people's thoughts on the wider perspective and across the whole TA.

    Surely it can't just be me?
  5. msr

    msr LE

    Well, as long as you have copies of the letters you have written, dates of appointments made etc then go ahead and use the Chain, that's what it is there for.

    All the more so if someone is going to be faced with a retention negative situation.

  6. Does everything have to be so formal? How about just chatting with the next bloke in the chain about doing something? I've got a long line of Text Messages which are available for audit :D

    Anyhow, enough about me and out to the wider questions...
  7. The_Duke

    The_Duke LE Moderator

    The TA CofC can be a difficult thing to manage. All of the problems of the TA soldier, particularly balancing family/work/TA etc are felt throughout the TA rank structure. In fact, the further up you go, the more you do outside of structured TA time.

    Before we condemn people (TA and Regular) who "aren't quick enough", a few quick checks need to be done:

    1. Was my request put forward in a suitable and timely manner? Letter or requested interview in their office with plenty of lead up time is. "hey Boss, can I....." at the bar late on the training night before the event isn't.

    2. My request is important to me, but how does it fit into the unit workload at the moment? If your point of contact in the CofC is currently writing CRs, planning a major exercise, prepping for ECI etc then sadly your individual request will come second to the greater needs of the unit. Tough, that is just how it is.

    3. Did I speak to the right people, and in the correct sequence? Different units have different ways of working, but where I am, course requests go to the Pl Comd first for discussion. If he is happy for the soldier to do the course, it goes to the PSAO for MTD/course in lieu approval. Then to OC for final approval and on to SPSI for course bid. If anyone just approached the Coy Clerk and asked for the course details and bidding proforma, then no course bid for them.

    If all of these have been done correctly, then also consider the "good bloke factor". Are you a regular attender, reliable, no G1 problems? If yes, expect people to work hard to support you. If you are only in it for yourself, totally unreliable, G1 problem or bounty hunter, then expect to go to the very bottom of the pile.

    If you still feel there has been an unacceptable delay, then ask for an interview. Explain your concerns, and more importantly.....listen to the answers. The army is a slow moving machine. Just because it is important to you, do not expect the wheels of the machine to turn any faster. Course bids can go in immediately, but are often not confirmed until the course is fully loaded, which may be months from now.

    If the delay is purely because they do not have the time or the inclination to act on your behalf, ask if you can pass the request onto someone else. Check with them that they are willing to accept it first though!
  8. It sounds to me like you already know the answer to your own questions, you just need confirmation for peace of mind.

    Each scenario will be different, it's impossible to pigeonhole every individual case into an acceptable time frame. If you feel that missing a link in the chain is justified, crack on. Just be prepared to back it up afterwards when the sh*t hits the fan.

    This will probably be the case for either the Regs or TA.
  9. I think The_Duke put it better than I could :)