WhatsApp banned by MOD

Harsh punishment is needed. A few charges and careers going downhill and you'll soon see people doing as they are told.
You can only punish if you understand the crime. And for it to be a crime Army Legal (or the MOD flavour) need to understand it. Even then, if it’s on your own phone a charge is going to be easy to get out of, depending on the circumstances.
 
I'd submit that Defence needs to create a coherent policy on this. Do you want me to be active on social media, encouraging people to join up, using my lived experience to provide a source of truth for potential recruits (as recruiting and parts of the media teams want me to). Or do I completely remove myself from SM (and tell my friends/family to not mention it either) and thus negate a potential data point for OSINT aggregation (as some parts of defence security have advocated)?

Until we do that, and think through the implications, there's little point in telling people to be wary of the OSINT footprint.
There's a balance to be had for certain and the education piece is key - fine publish pictures of a run ashore in the WIGS - we're not hiding the ship - don't post future locations, OPDEFS etc. It's not rocket science.
 
There's a balance to be had for certain and the education piece is key - fine publish pictures of a run ashore in the WIGS - we're not hiding the ship - don't post future locations, OPDEFS etc. It's not rocket science.
I agree that you have to put the message out there, it will reduce the amount of information that shouldn’t be getting out doing so, but people will still do what they do.
 
There's a balance to be had for certain and the education piece is key - fine publish pictures of a run ashore in the WIGS - we're not hiding the ship - don't post future locations, OPDEFS etc. It's not rocket science.
Depends

Are those the pics of your current run ashore (ie while there)? So an enemy could figure out where the ship is
 
Depends

Are those the pics of your current run ashore (ie while there)? So an enemy could figure out where the ship is
The arrival of a ship in a major harbour not normally a problem, as they are seldom secret in peace time and the arrival of the ship is often publicised as part of defence diplomacy. Have a look at how they are publicised:
Here's the Royal Navy visiting Halifax in 1958. As you can see it's all being well publicised.

And the Canadian navy in Shanghai in 2017. I could also show the Chinese navy in Canada, but you get the point.

All that sort of thing is out in public and well publicised. This isn't the problem.

Now suppose on the other hand you were in the Irish navy and were involved in a port visit to St. Petersburg. And suppose while you were there you were approached in a bar by a voluptuous woman with an eastern accent who rubbed herself against you and told you that she would be so happy to show her gratitude to you if you would only just hand over the names and contact details of everyone you worked with plus a copy of all the messages you exchanged with them over the past five years. Would you do it, or would any alarm bells start ringing in your head?

There seems to be a number of people on this thread however who are saying "sure, I would hand that all over if I thought it would get me into her knickers, what harm could it do after all?"

There are no doubt some who are now scrambling to reply "but that's different!" What's different is that with WhatsApp you may have given all that away and didn't even get a chance to get into her knickers.
 
The arrival of a ship in a major harbour not normally a problem, as they are seldom secret in peace time and the arrival of the ship is often publicised as part of defence diplomacy. Have a look at how they are publicised:
Here's the Royal Navy visiting Halifax in 1958. As you can see it's all being well publicised.

And the Canadian navy in Shanghai in 2017. I could also show the Chinese navy in Canada, but you get the point.
There seems to be a number of people on this thread however who are saying "sure, I would hand that all over if I thought it would get me into her knickers, what harm could it do after all?"

There are no doubt some who are now scrambling to reply "but that's different!" What's different is that with WhatsApp you may have given all that away and didn't even get a chance to get into her knickers.
Who’s been saying that then?
 
I would say they are actually the third most accurate source. Ahead of them is the list of movements Devonport QHM publish, and visint.

I’m impressed if Devonport’s QHM is publishing movements for 500nm away in Faslane...
 
That is a rhetorical device. An analogy was being drawn between communications using an insecure phone and a physical meeting in a bar in a foreign port and drawing attention how the two have similar effects in terms of security consequences.
Probably my lack of technical understanding but I can’t see how WhatsApp is important here. If your phone gets lifted they’ve got your contacts full stop.
 
The arrival of a ship in a major harbour not normally a problem, as they are seldom secret in peace time and the arrival of the ship is often publicised as part of defence diplomacy. Have a look at how they are publicised:
Here's the Royal Navy visiting Halifax in 1958. As you can see it's all being well publicised.

And the Canadian navy in Shanghai in 2017. I could also show the Chinese navy in Canada, but you get the point.

All that sort of thing is out in public and well publicised. This isn't the problem.

Now suppose on the other hand you were in the Irish navy and were involved in a port visit to St. Petersburg. And suppose while you were there you were approached in a bar by a voluptuous woman with an eastern accent who rubbed herself against you and told you that she would be so happy to show her gratitude to you if you would only just hand over the names and contact details of everyone you worked with plus a copy of all the messages you exchanged with them over the past five years. Would you do it, or would any alarm bells start ringing in your head?

There seems to be a number of people on this thread however who are saying "sure, I would hand that all over if I thought it would get me into her knickers, what harm could it do after all?"

There are no doubt some who are now scrambling to reply "but that's different!" What's different is that with WhatsApp you may have given all that away and didn't even get a chance to get into her knickers.
Can I just inquire where I could meet this voluptuous woman?
 
Probably my lack of technical understanding but I can’t see how WhatsApp is important here.
With the WhatsApp exploit they didn't have to lift your phone, they didn't even have to come near you. They just had to make a VOIP call to your app and then hang up before you answered and they're in. They could do that from anywhere in the world without risk of getting arrested, and they could completely automate the process in order to do it quickly and cheaply.

If your phone gets lifted they’ve got your contacts full stop.
Not if the phone is properly secured they don't.
 
Harsh punishment is needed. A few charges and careers going downhill and you'll soon see people doing as they are told.
Let me know when you see a 2* up for a CM for anything less than actually cramming TS files through the letterbox of the Russian Embassy, and you can have the snowboard franchise for Satan and all his little imps.
 
Let me know when you see a 2* up for a CM for anything less than actually cramming TS files through the letterbox of the Russian Embassy, and you can have the snowboard franchise for Satan and all his little imps.
Well obviously nothing is ever going to happen to the shitcunts who waffle on about values and standards and then do what the **** they like because their rank protects them.
I was just saying what is needed. Not what would ever happen.
 
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