What's wrong with our Democracy

So, every single MP was implicated where they? No action was taken against transgressors? No-one went to Gaol? Unfortunately it IS the speaker who recalls Paliament, you or I cannot change that fact which is now prologue, in the case you mentioned.
 
No accountability Stonker? No one has been gaoled then? Not one person? Its all been swept under the carpet then?
I'm waiting with breath bated, for you to list the penalised individuals: I cannot think of a single one.

Your choices are between the following 3 paths:

Path 1: Enlighten Us All With A Detailed Catalogue

or

Path 2: Acknowledge your ignorance, and just shut the **** up

Or

Path 3: Continue blathering your way on to my 'Ignore' list :-D
 
So let me clarify:-

You want the Queen to recall Parliament everytime YOU believe she should?

You want the press regulated by Law, the same press which outed the expenses row?

You beleive Cameron is shying away from the issue due to vested interests, NOT because the freedom of the press is something key to a democracy and something men have fought for. And any fiddling about must be done with care, rather than a knee jerk.

You propose a rebellion?
 
So let me clarify:-

You want the Queen to recall Parliament everytime YOU believe she should?

You want the press regulated by Law, the same press which outed the expenses row?

You beleive Cameron is shying away from the issue due to vested interests, NOT because the freedom of the press is something key to a democracy and something men have fought for. And any fiddling about must be done with care, rather than a knee jerk.

You propose a rebellion?
AND BINGO!!

Ignore list is the choice of Egon Legs.

Back to those CCTV screens - they won't watch themselves, y'know :-D
 
I feel validated by your response, or lack thereof.

For anyone else interested in the facts that Comrade Stonker wished to ignore- the personal repurcussions for those guilty of complicity and criminality in the expenses scandal:- These didnt happen, because Stonker says so, Ive made it all up........

Resignation of the Speaker
The resignation of Michael Martin, Speaker of the House of Commons, followed after he was pressured to step down for approving the allowances system that MPs have manipulated with questionable claims of expenses. The pressure and viable threats of a proposed vote of no confidence in Martin ultimately forced his resignation.[115] Michael Martin’s response to the handling of the expense crisis was not well received by the majority of the House. He attacked MPs in Parliament who defended The Daily Telegraph for publishing details of expenses and allowances. Martin then concluded his part in the debate over how to handle the expense scandal, by announcing that the Commons clerk had referred the matter of the leaked information to the Metropolitan Police Commissioner. Overall, Martin appeared to be more concerned with the nature of the leak of the information, which led to The Daily Telegraph’s publishing details of MPs expenses and allowances, rather than offering an anticipated apology or explanation. The majority of the MPs felt Martin’s defensive approach and attacks on various MPs as whistleblowers and the backbenchers was a clear indication that Martin was no longer able to lead the House with the required impartiality. MPs from his own majority party, Labour, and the minority opposition party, the Conservatives, felt he had lost the confidence of the public and the House in general.[116][117][118] Martin was the first Speaker to be forced out of the office by a motion of no confidence since John Trevor in 1695.[119] Despite apologising to the public on behalf of the House of Commons on 18 May,[120] Michael Martin announced his resignation as Speaker of the House of Commons and as Member of Parliament for Glasgow North East the following day, both effective 21 June.[121]

[edit] Cabinet and Ministerial resignations
Jacqui Smith announced that she would step down as Home Secretary after the European elections, but would contest her seat at the next election.[122] Lost her seat at the subsequent general election.
Hazel Blears announced on 3 June that she would step down as Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government.[123]
Tony McNulty resigned from his position as Minister for Employment during the cabinet reshuffle on 5 June 2009.[124] Lost his seat at the subsequent general election.
Geoff Hoon left his position as Secretary of State for Transport during the cabinet reshuffle on 5 June 2009, in order for him to spend more time on European and international issues with him being considered a possible candidate as the next British member of the European Commission.[125] Did not stand at the 2010 election.
Kitty Ussher resigned as Exchequer Secretary to the Treasury on 17 June, after only 8 days in the position, following details of avoiding capital gains tax being published.[126] Did not stand at the 2010 election.
David Laws was the last to resign from the cabinet for expenses related issues, one year after the other cabinet resignations. A Liberal Democrat frontbencher appointed to the position of Chief Secretary to the Treasury after the 2010 general election, he resigned 16 days later when the Daily Telegraph reported that he claimed over £40,000 on his expenses in the form of second home costs, from 2004 to late 2009, during which time he had been renting rooms at properties owned by his long-term partner, James Lundie.[127]
[edit] Labour backbenchers
The Labour Party formed a three-person panel of its National Executive Committee (NEC) in order to investigate some of its MPs who were referred to it over expenses allegations, which quickly became known as the "Star Chamber" (a reference to the court of the same name employed by English monarchs to dispense summary justice in the 16th and 17th centuries).[128][129] Individual cases (in alphabetical order) include:

Ben Chapman announced on 21 May 2009 that he would stand down at the next election, while maintaining that he had done nothing wrong; he said he would resign because the story in the Daily Telegraph had been hurtful to his family, friends and local party members. He was the first Labour MP who announced he would stand down.[130]
David Chaytor announced that he would not stand for re-election,[131] and was also barred from standing for Labour at the next general election.[132] Charged with three alleged offences under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968 ("false accounting"),[133][134] on 3 December 2010 he pleaded guilty to claiming rent for a house he in fact owned, using a fake tenancy agreement with his daughter. He was sentenced on 7 January 2011 to an 18-month jail sentence.[135] His sentence may have been more lenient than the maximum seven years because of his guilty plea.[136]
Harry Cohen announced he would not stand for re-election. He said the strain caused by the criticism over his expenses, and the formal investigation into his claims, were the main factors behind his departure.[137] He was subsequently barred from receiving his MP's resettlement grant, after being censured for his claims on a second home.[138]
Jim Devine was deselected on 16 June following a disciplinary hearing by the Labour party "star chamber".[132][139] He has been charged with two alleged offences under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968 ("false accounting").[133][134] He was duly convicted of two charges of false accounting and on 31 March 2011 was sentenced to 16 months imprisonment[140][141]
Ian Gibson was also barred from representing Labour at the next general election and de-selected. He was said to be "deeply disappointed".[132] On 5 June, Gibson announced his resignation as an MP, forcing a by-election to be held in his Norwich North constituency on 23 July 2009, which Labour went on to lose to the Conservatives.[142]
Eric Illsley on 8 February 2011, announced his resignation as an MP, forcing a by-election to be held in his Barnsley Central constituency, after pleading guilty to charges of false accounting.[143]
Denis MacShane on 5 November 2012, announced his resignation as an MP, forcing a by-election to be held in his Rotherham constituency, following a recommendation from the Standards and Privileges Committee that he be suspended for 12 months for submitting false expenses invoices.[144]
Anne Moffat on 22 January 2010, Moffat was deselected by her East Lothian constituency party, over her travel expenses.[145]
Margaret Moran decided not to contest the next election,[146] and has also been barred from standing for Labour at the next general election.[132] On 13 October 2010, the Telegraph reported that Moran would be prosecuted over her expenses.[147] In 2012, Moran was declared unfit to stand trial due her mental health, which was profoundly affected by the scandal.
Elliot Morley announced on 29 May that he would not stand for re-election,[148] and has also been barred from standing for Labour at the next general election by the NEC's "star chamber".[132] He has been charged with two alleged offences under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968 ("false accounting").[133][134]
[edit] Conservatives
On 14 May, Andrew MacKay, the Conservative MP for Bracknell, resigned as parliamentary aide to David Cameron over what he described as "unacceptable" expenses claims made by him. Subsequently he decided to stand down at the next Bracknell parliamentary election.[149] His wife, Julie Kirkbride who represents Bromsgrove, decided on 28 May 2009 that she too would not stand at the next general election.[150]
Douglas Hogg announced on 19 May that he would retire from Parliament at the next general election.[151]
Anthony Steen announced on 20 May that he would retire from Parliament at the next general election.[152]
Sir Peter Viggers announced on 20 May that he would retire from Parliament at the next general election.[153]
Husband and wife Conservative backbenchers Sir Nicholas and Lady Ann Winterton announced their intention to stand down at the next election.[154]
Christopher Fraser stated he would stand down to "care for his ill wife".[155]
Ian Taylor announced he would retire at the next general election although not because of the expenses issue (see link below). He had been claiming and had openly declared the maximum allowed for a second home allowance for a London home for four years between 2003 and 2008, even though his main residence was in Guildford—40 minutes from Westminister.[156]
[edit] Peers
Amir Bhatia, Baron Bhatia has been suspended from the House of Lords for eight months and told to repay £27,446
Anthony Clarke, Baron Clarke of Hampstead admitted that he “fiddled” his expenses to make up for not being paid a salary.[157]
Lord Hanningfield was charged with two alleged offences under section 17 of the Theft Act 1968 ("false accounting").[133][134] He stepped down from his frontbench role on learning of the charges on 5 February 2010.[158] On 26 May 2011, Lord Hanningfield was found guilty on six counts.
Swraj Paul, Baron Paul has been suspended from the House of Lords for four months and ordered to pay back £41,982
John Taylor, Baron Taylor of Warwick pleaded not guilty to six charges of false accounting, but was convicted at Southwark Crown Court on 25 January 2011.
Baroness Uddin faces a police investigation for alleged fraud for claiming at least £180,000 in expenses by designating an empty flat, and previously an allegedly non existent property as her main residence. She was suspended from the House of Lords until the end of 2012 and told to repay £125,349[159][160]
 
After reading the first couple of pages, I couldn't be bothered to read the rest of this thread but the fact that this debate can happen is testament to our democracy.

I think that could possibly reflect the views of a lot of voters in Britain as well.......Sadly!
 
Oddly, ARRSE has suggested I posted on this page recently!

Our democracy? What democracy? there is no such thing as democracy in this country Its just made to look democratic.
Are you still alive Brasso guzzler? Would you like to explain what you mean? Or anyone else?

My personal view is that the political classes have become distanced from everyday life - this is the real problem with our political system.
 
Oddly, ARRSE has suggested I posted on this page recently!



Are you still alive Brasso guzzler? Would you like to explain what you mean? Or anyone else?

My personal view is that the political classes have become distanced from everyday life - this is the real problem with our political system.

You may be in for a long wait:

boozeguzzler.JPG
 
Democracy is just one of many politicapoliticas. In essence that format is a dictate of majority over minority. Democracy fundamentaly does not promise equality or fairness. Only majority rule over minority. Minority is always loosing in democracy.

The content is even more complex than formats. You ask for "democracy" but you mean "fairness". There is one good saying -"tops always seek power, botoms always seek fairness". In Britain public also seek power ... over other nations. Public was currupted by idea of national superiority, so fairness and ways it could be achieved in public life is so far away from british psyco, the current soul searching has a long way to go. First Brits needs to humble themselves into equality with other nations, then call for fairness of own state through equality with own elite and own minorities. And I do not mean gays this time around.
 

Trans-sane

LE
Book Reviewer
Democracy is just one of many politicapoliticas. In essence that format is a dictate of majority over minority. Democracy fundamentaly does not promise equality or fairness. Only majority rule over minority. Minority is always loosing in democracy.

The content is even more complex than formats. You ask for "democracy" but you mean "fairness". There is one good saying -"tops always seek power, botoms always seek fairness". In Britain public also seek power ... over other nations. Public was currupted by idea of national superiority, so fairness and ways it could be achieved in public life is so far away from british psyco, the current soul searching has a long way to go. First Brits needs to humble themselves into equality with other nations, then call for fairness of own state through equality with own elite and own minorities. And I do not mean gays this time around.
Welcome back. I was thinking you'd been sent to the gulags for failing to defend Russian policy towards Ukraine four years ago.
 
Democracy is just one of many politicapoliticas. In essence that format is a dictate of majority over minority. Democracy fundamentaly does not promise equality or fairness. Only majority rule over minority. Minority is always loosing in democracy.
That is why you have the rule of law. The law protects people by limiting the power of authorities, corporations, and other individuals. In the UK, one key concept is Wednesbury Unreasonableness. Google it!
 
Democracy is just one of many politicapoliticas. In essence that format is a dictate of majority over minority. Democracy fundamentaly does not promise equality or fairness. Only majority rule over minority. Minority is always loosing in democracy.

The content is even more complex than formats. You ask for "democracy" but you mean "fairness". There is one good saying -"tops always seek power, botoms always seek fairness". In Britain public also seek power ... over other nations. Public was currupted by idea of national superiority, so fairness and ways it could be achieved in public life is so far away from british psyco, the current soul searching has a long way to go. First Brits needs to humble themselves into equality with other nations, then call for fairness of own state through equality with own elite and own minorities. And I do not mean gays this time around.
I think it should be made clear that in terms of democracy, 'majority' means majority opinion, not groups who are the majority. Similarly with 'minority'.

It is not the majority group who hold power of decision but the majority opinion of the whole electorate, with the votes of individuals in majority and minority groups having equal weight.

The British public are not corrupted by the idea of national superiority, we are superior.
 
My personal view is that the political classes have become distanced from everyday life - this is the real problem with our political system.
Not just in Britain, quick glance round Europe will reveal a similar problem in several countries, and we needn't get started on the other side of the Pond.
 
Democracy is just one of many politicapoliticas. In essence that format is a dictate of majority over minority. Democracy fundamentaly does not promise equality or fairness. Only majority rule over minority. Minority is always loosing in democracy.

The content is even more complex than formats. You ask for "democracy" but you mean "fairness". There is one good saying -"tops always seek power, botoms always seek fairness". In Britain public also seek power ... over other nations. Public was currupted by idea of national superiority, so fairness and ways it could be achieved in public life is so far away from british psyco, the current soul searching has a long way to go. First Brits needs to humble themselves into equality with other nations, then call for fairness of own state through equality with own elite and own minorities. And I do not mean gays this time around.
Anette again? Just what the world requires.

Another tag team of Russian trolls filling up bandwidth with lies and bullshit in the service of a war criminal and mafia leader.
 

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