Whats the score on the PC PC of the MPS?

Discussion in 'The Intelligence Cell' started by Cuddles, Aug 22, 2005.

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  1. I have been invited to start a gossipous thread on the subject of that well-known figure of fun (if you live outside London) or cause for concern (if you live in the MPS Police Area). My statement on another thread:

    The thing about Commissioner Bliar, and if you've spent as much time around red-tabs as I have then you'll know what I mean, is that he just doesn't look trustworthy or exude "capability". He looks as though he got where he is today by cunning and stealth not through achievement and by having dog and "bottom". He is frivolous and looks like a media cut-out rather than the best professional police commander in the UK - which is what the MPS can afford and arguably deserves...

    led the gallant and honourable Member for Vegetius Central to ask me to kick off this thread.

    So...Is the PC Police Commissioner a careerist lickspittle, found wanting in the crucible of real stresses and strains or just a decent officer of the law, doing his best, day in-day out, with just Charles Clarke to turn to for help??

    Answers on an ARRSECard please...
  2. He's a fine upstanding man who will never bow to political pressure, or suck up to 'community' leaders, he would never overuse the word community or waste money which could be spent on operational policing on 'community' based projects or PCSOs.

  3. And his smile suggests he's oh so happy to have Mr Paddick covering his back.
  4. By the way I don't do everything Vegetius tells me to do....Do I boss?
  5. Let's kick off with a few discussion points:

    1. I think this government want to radically reduce the number of police forces in the UK to nine or ten. Big regional forces, with fewer Chief Constables and Police Authorities to deal with. It is also, incidentally, cheaper.

    2. I think this government want three tier policing with cheap auxiliaries, local police and uber-elite Feds at the top. The Feds will be Crown Servants, not constables (SOCA), and thus locally unaccountable.

    3. I think that this government is hopelessly wedded to liberal dogma on sentencing and punishment and is currently hanging in the wind because of it. The Human Rights Act is a mess, for example. It's the emperor's most luxuriant and non-existent suit of new clothes.

    4. I think that this government want rapid-intervention social services, not law enforcement.

    What does this have to do with Sir Ian? Well, which of these do you think he supports, and does it explain Neu Arbeit's support for him?

    Lastly, the Tories for all their faults tended to appoint Commissioners as operational leaders, with reforming zeal a neat add-on (Condon springs to mind, he wasn't a Tory yes-man whatsoever and Imbert was defiintely old-skool choice). Stevens was put in with reservations to keep morale afloat after McPherson.

    Personally, I don't think Blair is doing as badly as (1) I feared and (2) everybody else in the Media thinks (they scent blood in a quiet news season). I compare his position to that of Condon in the mid-90's when the Stephen Lawrence affair landed with a thud in his "in" tray. Condon was an unpopular managerialist who saw civil war with the CID as important as running the Met.

    It is easy to draw convenient character sketches of people. Blair as a nervy, liberal, do-gooder who is out of his depth is both unfair and inaccurate. The man is a canny political operator, a sound manager with compassion for what he believes is the way forward. He isn't clubbable and I doubt that he will ever win the affection of his officers, but his job is too big for him to worry about that too much. He is, however, also possibly a man of his time who could be described as leading in a similar manner to the way that his political masters.

    Those are my thoughts. The jury, as I say, is still out on Sir Ian here in the trenches, but his leadership during the terrorism crisis in my view is much better than he is being given credit for.

  6. Banner Headline on AOL News:

    Tube shooting - Brazil Team Flies In. When since has Ronaldo been a ballistics expert then?
  7. I was a "Crown servant" in my yoof, and able to tell all and sundry;

    "I am Sorry Sir, you cannot take me to court, I have Crown immunity, and technically speaking my organisation does not exist in law, and hasn't done so since 1836..."

    Oh how we laughed at the C***O bar at * M*****k
  8. A DS female of my acquaintance describes Stevens in glowing terms, and says of him "He always wanted to hear what the troops had to say , even down to inviting them to the pub"

    Sir Ian apparently does not.
  9. what the government wants and what they will get are two entirely separate matters though - police officers seconded to SOCA/NCS at present are not standing for becoming directly employed - they are insisting on keeping terms and conditions. Cannot speak for cussies etc though!
  10. woopert

    woopert LE Moderator

    a view supported by a friend of mine who I saw yesterday who is head of the civil admin dept at Cambs constabulary. She sees this as the only agenda on the table, and frankly it is worrying because it will mean huge tranches of policing with those not friendly to New Labour being ousted in favour of political appointees on-board with the liberal agenda.

    What we need is something similar to the US system of policing where each area/city has it's own municipal police force and the Sherriff's department to provide policing in rural areas or towns too small to have their own force. The operational head of the police force comes up through te ranks, but the Commissioner (who is like a Chief Executive) is elected, and the Chief of Police is answerable to him.

    If we had a similar set up where large municipalities could have a local force rather than a county constabulary then local priorities could be set. The county constabulary could provide dedicated policing to rural areas and both the county and municipal police could have a Chief Constable who is an operational copper accountable to an elected Commissioner who gets to keep his job only if he delivers on the policing agenda he promised to deliver in the first place.

    If we had this criminals would be caught, anti-social behaviour would drop, and there'd be none of this liberal hand-wringing or Brian Paddick like going soft on the causes of anti-social behaviour and cow-towing to the Human Rights brigade because Commissioners would loose their jobs and be replaced by someone who actually delivered.

    The reason crime and disorder isn't a big vote winner at general elections any more is because politicians are too far removed from the problem and voters know it. While politicians bang on about reducing re-offending and prisoner rights people's houses are being burgled and people are being robbed and so they don't bother to vote because it makes not one jot of difference. that would change with police independance and smaller forces, not oplitical and bigger ones.
  11. If Commisoner Blair had any decency he would resign especially after the lies about the poor Brazilian chap how was shot.... I am over seas right now, so i might be out the UK news loop, but when i left the papers had the "actual" events of the poor sod had not done any thing suspicious really appart from catch a train, sit down and read his paper and then gets pulled out of his seat and is shot like a dog on the floor 8 times. There seems to me to be a cover up, and Blair does not want the Indep Police Complaints body to look in to it etc. He is a toady policitican and not, as has been said earlier, a top class copper, or leader of what is meant to be the very best Police Force in the world. But these are the days of New Labour, no one resigns unless Tony forces you to, but he is busy "some where on a beach/ yatch"
  12. As has been said before, lets wait for the facts of the investigation to come out before we jump to conclusions about what officers did or didnt do.
  13. Vegetius said
    Back in 1969 there was a lot of Met-talk re a single National police force. Not proceeded because of problems getting Sweedy to understand it and go along. So, 1 could be a plan and a runner. 2 would be preferable to someone who has already abandoned the Houses of Parliament. 3 Yes but no but er. The problems Clarke has with HRA in getting undesirables deported to their country of origin will cause re-evaluation of HRA application in UK. Depending on how this goes will be introduction of 3. 4 would be about right for their style - social services come up with arty farty ideas and do not do anything so unpleasant as saying who was to blame - law by committee.
    Ian Blair is surely typical of what leadership of public service has become. Management by objectives and not management by walking about. There is a lot of managerial theory to his job and it is much more interesting to some people than is thief taking. Back in the days of Marks, there was a lot of real police corruption (CRO, Dirty Books etc) and rank and file were glad to see it purged. Now much less opportunity for Cmdr Durie's and Bosses such as Blair are too far removed from H219 copper on the beat.
    Solutions - I don't have any. I think that Laura Norder is going to hell in a handcart. Guys who have solutions are not the type that will progress to position where they can influence anything.
  14. A few points, or 'My Two Cents'

    1. By any stat count (BCS, ABI) crime has been falling year on year since 1980. Dont listen to taxi drivers/Daily Mail types, there is no crime. What there is is fear of crime. This has risen exponetially since the 90's. What has also risen is the prison population, maybe there is a co-relation (who knows) what I know is the same scrotes are being locked up, released, locked up. All at 35-55 grand a year on my dollar. Make it stop.

    2. Why the hell do the Home Office bend over so much for the cops, specifially ACPO? Do they have some negatives we should know about or was Blind Beardie Pew up to even worse than extra mural shagging? I used to think Howard was a proto-Fascist then Straw and then Beardie give senior cops a blank cheque in all kinds of legistlation-COMPULSORY DNA/Photo/Fingerprints as soon as you get arrested. And these are retained FOR EVER. Not destroyed when you are aquitted. Bringing prosecutions against kids for hanging around, wearing hoodies, old dolls for throwing rhubarb. Abolishing jury trials, double jepardy and allowing previous convictions in (cos thats what the Mail wants) And you think Human Rights is a joke? Its about the only thing stopping these barstewards locking lads up for having 'eyes too close together'. And would somebody stop these Harpie types who bang on about too many women in prison/not enough conviction for rape. Look, you got your drugs downgraded, and you can marry your gay lover,(having been able to shag him from the youngest age in UK history , 16) is'nt that enough? Leave the Breeders alone. We have the lowest conviction rate for rape anywhere, is'nt that a good thing? It means there are'nt that many rape-os! Do you see what I did there....?

    3. 43 police forces. By my Almanac it would appear some constabularies have fewer bodies than a Doncaster Belles home crowd. Why? Needless duplication and make-work. Well, not on my dollar, thank you. Go play cops on your own time, like the Sealed Knot. Policing is not a graduate job (possibly a huge disadvantage in being a graduate), why does it pay graduate money on entry? With age and experience by all means I'll cough up. Meanwhile, I'll tolerate whoever walks the streets and deters crime. Get out of your cars and interact with the community, becase there are more of us and policeing has to be by consent. You will run out of rounds before we run out of disgruntled bodies, remember that........copper.

    Blair? Knighhood/applause before he deserved it. Oxbridge. Smarmy without substance. Disembling weasle words that will bite him in the ass.

    They probably were separated at birth......

    :wink: :wink:
  15. Old Red Cap's last comment is spot on.

    Policing must be unique in that seeking operational experience actually de-bars you from serious advancement. To make Chief Constable you will spend probably 65% of your career in staff and policy roles. If you actually enjoy policing then there's not much room for you at the top. I've already decided that I'm going to probably retire as an Inspector or Chief Inspector simply because I'm not interested in forumlating a synergic policy on widgets and community involvement.

    Shame, 'cuz (of course) I'd have been the best Commissioner they'll never have. Again, the Home Office is to blame as it sets the standard and competencies for the Acpo cadre officers.

    John Stevens was a genuine abberation; a police officer with his protracted detective experience would never get his foot in the door of Acpo ranks nowadays. Senior police officers know full well the gulf between them and their operational ranking officers, but if it bothers them they seldom show it.

    If Blair goes, BTW, I'm opening a book; evens they ask Mike Todd from GMP to come back.