Whats the fuss?

#1
Some dodgy photos show up, and a daily rag splash them all over there front page, with no thought about the consiquence's to our lads and lass's out there.But lets step back and see what all the fuss is about,an alleged Iraqie is getting a slap and a little damp,thats not exactly being strung up by the b*lls,and having hot irons parked in the nether regions is it?The treatment that boyo is getting looks tame compared to what was dished out when i went through basic! not to mention escape and evasion! but that was back in the dark ages before all this P.C. bullshyte came in.If the paper want to print pictures How about the 7 RMP butcherd in that sh1t hole police station,the two sigenels guys executed at the begining of the war and there bodies splashed all over arab TV ,the 4 yank civies killed burnt dismemberd and hung from a sodding bridge ,and then ask the British public if they give a shyte about some scrote being pissed on!
(Sorry i was of on one there!)
 
#2
If this turns out to be true, which i highly doubt it will, i would be highly disappointed and hope that the men involved would have the book thrown at them.

You forget, we are the 'saviors' from Saddam, we signed the Geneva Convention, and we are suppose to doing what is right. Do you have no morals you piss sack?
 
#3
We have a reputation to uphold and that is as the most professional Army in the world!

After this we have to rebuild our reputation somewhat.
The yanks on the otherhand never really had one! T**TS
 
#4
hibby said:
How about the 7 RMP butcherd in that sh1t hole police station,the two sigenels guys executed at the begining of the war and there bodies splashed all over arab TV
The 2 unfortunate soldiers were Royal Engineers not Royal Signals
 
#5
What's the fuss about?

Discipline. This is not done to anyone, deserving or undeserving. It is an incremental progress from these disgusting scenes to the mass graves that UK plc has cleaned up in the Balkans. The Spams are well on their way down that road already.
 
#6
You boys must have had a realy shelterd life, Are you telling me you have never been on the receaving end of a beasting, by some disgruntled R.P. Sgt. Never been taken round the back of a hanger by youre section commander to "show you the error of your ways?".And i suppose when paddy was thrown into the back of a pig (humber 1ton for our younger readers)all his human rights were taken into consideration, By the nice RUC man and four man brick?So dont give me any of this crap that things like this dont happen, its the nature of the beast,and just because you dont see it in your little corner of the world,it dont mean it aint happening.
While im on a roll does Mr PVRd realy believe the yanks are soon to go on a ethnic cleansing spree?And Disco does it realy matter what cap badge was worn,my remarks still stand.With regards to my morals and compassion i dont believe i have a problem and im sorry but i still cant get exited by those photos
P.S Spank the monkey I consider my self more a Scum bag than a piss sack :twisted:
 
#8
No flash i bathed every Sunday wheather i needed to or not
 
#9
While im on a roll does Mr PVRd realy believe the yanks are soon to go on a ethnic cleansing spree?
They did in My Lai! And they entered that particular country some 40 years or so ago as upholders of democracy! There was a shot (no pun intended) shown today on BBC from the gun camera of an attack helicopter crew calmly putting a burst into a wounded man. The German Army in WW2 was the most effective fighting machine of the time with a proudly-held sense of honour and discipline, and look what they did.

And i suppose when paddy was thrown into the back of a pig (humber 1ton for our younger readers)all his human rights were taken into consideration, By the nice RUC man and four man brick
The demise of summary justice is fairly recent. I remember being on the end of one minor beasting that could be described as physical, and talking to a senior some years later who still offered his troops "behind the shed" justice. It's only recently that the coppers have stopped offering this brand of justice to their drunken charges. Whatever the pros and cons of what could be called summary justice, it is a long way from these instances of humiliating sadism.

I'm agree "it" goes on, despite the efforts of those who do not approve, and the more "it" is condoned, the more "it" will happen. Also, more Iraqis will be encouraged into taking a pop, planting a bomb, or merely turning a blind eye.
 
#10
You boys must have had a realy shelterd life, Are you telling me you have never been on the receaving end of a beasting, by some disgruntled R.P. Sgt. Never been taken round the back of a hanger by youre section commander to "show you the error of your ways?"
Nothing but bullies. They tried but I just told them where to get off. This is not some private army we're in. What we get from people who dish sh1te out like that, are people who pass the same sh1te on. The cycle ends when you stand up to them.
 
#11
Zero tolerance of this sort of thing (and I speak as a well known baiter of the DALS people). You don't do it, you don't condone it and wherever you find it you stop it and make sure that the culprits are dealt with.

Oh and in case you think I'm some sort of PC pratt - I regard Norman Tebbit as a dangerous lefty and Attila the Hun as being soft on discipline.
 
#13
Brave words young soulwiz and well spoken! But back in the day ,Violence(for want of a better word )Was part of army life and had been for decades.I know it is now seen as bullying but in some cases a well placed dig in the ribs tended to concentrate the mind! It may sound harsh but we were all in the same boat, and it was ecepted. But as they say things change and with all us dinosaurs put out to grass lets hope its for the better
 
#14
Coming from an inf Bn where the boys would rather have a word with the CSM behind the block than lose a weeks pay I agree with much of what you say. Such discipline was harsh but usually fair - indeed if it was unfair Tom would soon shout.

We managed to get away from that system but in recent years there have been a lot of men taking the piss out of the new system - electing to go for DCM rather than face summary punishment, secure in the knowledge that the system would not run to the cost of finding them guilty. The worrying thing is that if certain individuals keep on taking the michael in this way, we might well see a return to the old ways.

Having said all of that, mistreatment of prisoners is against all the rules and must not, and indeed is not tolerated within the British Army. I am not a soft lefty. The robust implementation of LAW and ORDER in any situation is more important than any crap that might issue forth from any group of precious judges with their snouts in the eurotrough, but the implementation of Law and Order does not extend to smacking prisoners around the place.
 
#15
hibby said:
Some dodgy photos show up, and a daily rag splash them all over there front page, with no thought about the consiquence's to our lads and lass's out there.But lets step back and see what all the fuss is about,
The fuss is about the fact that these photos (even if they are faked, as I believe) and the american ones appear to have lost us the peace, if not the war.

Trotsky
 
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#16
mushroom said:
Coming from an inf Bn where the boys would rather have a word with the CSM behind the block than lose a weeks pay I agree with much of what you say. Such discipline was harsh but usually fair - indeed if it was unfair Tom would soon shout.
The trouble is that it gets out of hand. When I was a young, naive pl comd in the 80s, I was running a range at Ballykinlar with a fellow subbie when one of the Cpls found one of the range sentries having a kip on stag. The CSM suggested that us two officers go off to the range hut for nice cup of tea which we did. Watching out of the window, we saw the CSM suggest that the vile miscreant could 'take his punishment or the OCs' and he opted for the former. CSM then stood him to attention, drew a red X on his forehead with a lumocolour and dropped him with a flying headbutt.

All very salutary... but it soon emerged that the JNCOs were following his example with the young crows out of the depot and, sure enough, we had a bullying problem in the company.

The fact is, at that time you could use the summary disciplinary system to enforce fines and punishments legally, and it more or less worked, but it was the existence of the parallel 'back of the block' fill-in version which discredited it, and led to all the restrictions we have now.

It's an old cliche, but there are very few bad soldiers, only bad leaders, and if you have to lead by fear, then you aren't good.
 
#17
Watching out of the window, we saw the CSM suggest that the vile miscreant could 'take his punishment or the OCs'
So the CSM gave him the CHOICE!!!! He chose the slap wheres the bullying?
 
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#18
Snakes_R_Us said:
Watching out of the window, we saw the CSM suggest that the vile miscreant could 'take his punishment or the OCs'
So the CSM gave him the CHOICE!!!! He chose the slap wheres the bullying?
Well that's how I rationalised it at the time, but the problem was that the Cpls and LCpls were following the CSMs example but not giving any choice, and it bred a culture of violence in the block. The bullying came about when JNCOs were decking privates for giving them 'funny looks' or 'being cheeky' or 'being a twat'. It eventually took a big effort by the chain of command from CO downwards to eradicate it, and for a long time, it wasn't a happy battalion.
 
#19
CP if you read my post again I did not say it was accectable, indeed I said that we managed to get away from it.

I don't remember anyone other than the CSM's doing it and seem to remember that it was a very jealously guarded privlege. It was wrong. But it wasn't bullying.
 
#20
Am i just being cynical or are these bleeding hearts who are now coming forward with tales of"torture and mistreatment" doing it through an attack of concience ,or was a cheque book waved in there direction, and of course dont forget the compo: for the trauma they suffered by witnessing these barbaric deeds.
 
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