Whats the chance of pay 2000 being replaced?

Discussion in 'Army Pay, Claims & JPA' started by Lordfelcher, Mar 7, 2005.

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  1. Lets face it, the entire system crap and extremely unfair, the increment system was on face value a good idea, but in reality, no one feels the financial benefit of an incremental rise. Also, the fact that there is only a higher and lower band makes the system unfair. a lot of trades deserve low band status but the problems arise within the high band. How can any one justify paying a chef the same (or at certain ranks more!) than an ammunition technician? An AT faces extreme danger as part of the daily routine, the most danger a chef faces is verbal abuse over the standard of a curry at mealtimes.
    At the same time an AT isnt on the same level as a helicopter pilot for instance. im sure plenty of trades could benefit from a higher level being impemented.
    Im not knocking chefs by the way, its just a handy example to use, and any one who knows my physique will know im the chefs best customer!!
  2. Nil.

    However, to answer your gripes about danger etc etc, you must understand that the graded pay structure under Pay 2k reflects a whole array of different metrics. The Joint Service Job Evaluation Team (JSJET) visited each A&SD (an ongoing process) in order to determine 'who does what'. If your particular trade is not currently receiving Higher Band pay, this is due to your own A&SD, and a number of factors.

    One of the major factors in the evaluation process is an assessment of command. This is why a LCpl in the Inf gets Higher Band while a LCpl in the RMP does not. The RMP chap (arguably) spends more time on tour, endures more separation etc, but has far fewer command responsibilities, hence Lower Band. Separation per se is covered by the X Factor, after all.

    Higher Band is also awarded to certain trade groups for retention purposes.
  3. Surely it will be time to revisit the Inf pay bands if they were initially raised for retention purposes. More importantly with the Bowmanisation process taking place then I would agree that it would be time for a complete review. Lets hope that this time the A&SDs will look a bit more carefully. It may be control rather than comd that becomes a more decisive factor in determining the band in the future.
  4. Given the amount of time effort and money that went into developing P2K there is absolutely no chance of them replacing it. The Op tours bit is sort of, though by no means completely, covered by LSSA - you get more money when you are away!

    The chefs are always held up as the example of it being got 'wrong' but their bosses just made a stronger case for them, crap hours, often unpleasant conditions, and also it is a retention tool. I have to say that my sympathy for them went out the window when I realised that most of them get the day off when they cater a function and bloody ED pay - ED pay for doing your job??? :x
  5. Apart from anything else, the principle of P2K is sound. It's just the application of it that has been a bit shite.

  6. For all you out there that think chefs have it easy and shouldnt be on the higher band then eat S"*t. Military chefs are the only job in the army where they do their operational job 3 times aday 365 days a year no matter what theatre. as for a day off after a function well in my unit that only happens when the chefs have worked long hours AFTER a full day providing a function for those on the pop, ED pay is paid for exactly that EXTRA DUTY (which means over and above there normal working day) why should a chef provide you lot with food while you are on the pop and not benifit from it. Justifaction for all chefs (less Pte's and SSgt's) getting higher band: crap hours, often crap conditions, majorly under manned in Pte and Lcpl rank, more regular tours than Most (apart from othe corps) due to being posted on promotion and posted every 2-3 years, arms plot moves meaning back to back tours on occassions.
    we can all argue the merits of our own cap badges, but the bottom line is pay 2000 is a great improvement on the old system, i prefer getting paid for my experience as well as my rank as im sure 90% of the army do.
  7. A system of incremental pay increases in line with experience is a top idea but what about the knackers who get the increase just because they have been in another year. Include those who can not pass all their training directives.

    And what about the specialists, should they not receive true recognition in respect of the training and conditions of employment.

    Everyone goes on about the slops jockeys. Fine there are some hard working individuals out there and they do have poor working conditions and hours. So maybe higher band is justifiable. But what about the pioneers and their grave guys or EOD teams on immediate response, let alone the very nature of the job, are they receiving an appropriate level of reward? Don't think so.

    For the Army in general, Pay2K is a mostly fair system. The addition of specialist pay, or pay bands, above the current Para, Diver, Pilot and aircrew, should be looked at being introduced where the job entitles it.

    How we can go from Tech Pay, Trade Pay and such like to just Higher and Lower I don't know. The change in the pay system may very well be part of the poor recruiting in certain areas.
  8. Pilots and SF are on a separate (higher) pay spines from the rest of the army on p2k.
  9. so are doctors
  10. Pilots etc are not on "higher pay spines" as worthydown warrior puts it but certain specialists - pilots included receive specialist pay eg flying pay!!
  11. . My ear constantly gets bent over P2000. I know a rumour doing the rounds where I work is things could change for a better more balanced system. P2000 Failed from the start but no one is going to admit it
  12. When P2k was introduced in Apr 2001 all ranks(I'm talking solders here) were on a single Higher/Lower pay Banding. Since then 2 more pay spines have been introduced.
    1. The 'A' Range for SF and
    2. Pilot Employment Stream (Army) (PES(A))
    The Professional Aviator Pay Spine is a new pay spine for pilots across the 3 Services and common principles apply. It is known as the PES(A) for the AAC. The principles of the PES(A) are; pilots will only serve in flying or flying related appointments, they will not receive Flying Pay but will receive an enhanced rate of basic pay and pension supplements, and pay will be decoupled from rank.

    Paywog see here for more details http://www.army.mod.uk/servingsoldier/condofserv/mm/pesa.htm
  13. And Dentists :twisted:
  14. I'd better tell my Vehicle mechanics, technicians et al that they dont do their job apart from on exercise / tour.

    There again if you are that invaluable that you cannot be spared to get any leave, then you deserve all the money you get. Don't chefs do early, days and late shifts, and only work all day when in the field? And aren't the majority of cook houses manned by Sodexho contractors?

    oh hello, I may have found a ravine running through your argument.

    I ain't knocking it, but don't oversell yourself.

    (Ex band 7 trade, now higher band. Miffed isn't the word)
  15. and Ill ensure that the surgical and nursing teams stop practicing the moment they arrive back in the UK!! :roll: