Whats happenned to all the LSWs?

#1
Not seen one anywhere for a long time, not even stagging on a gate in the UK. Do people still have them in their armouries or have they finally been withdrawn and consigned to the pit of hell where they belong?
 
#4
About time too, LSW's were a piece a crap
 

napier

LE
Moderator
Kit Reviewer
#5
The version of the Minimi chosen by the British is the short-barrelled 'Para' type (L110A1) and it is being used to supplement the firepower of infantry units by delivering suppressive fire out to 300m; the L86A2 is being retained for its long-range accuracy, and infantry four-man fire teams are therefore armed with two L85A2 (one with a 40mm UGL), an L86A2 and an L110A1.

from here, a well balanced piece on the L85/86 system. The LSW very much has a place in the golf bag if people can get over its ugly appearance, 'crow cannon' reputation and start using it properly as an extremely accurate long range rifle.
 
#6
I was always puzzled why the army chose the LSW in the first place- the Yanks were buying the Minimi in the 1980s as the M249, and surely there was some memory of the Bren gun (a magazine fed weapon like LSW) being outclassed by german beltfed LMGs like MG-42 in WW2? I understand theres a commonality of parts with the L85 rifle, but surely thats outweighed by the need for firepower?
 
#7
I did a Bn Marksmanship course at STC, with the SASC. Knocking down huns heads at 800 with an LSW was so much fun!
 
#8
Napier

I thought the future infantry structure was to arm the marksmen in the platoon with a sniper rifle rather than LSW? Seem to dimly remember something from Trg and Doctrine news on the subject a while back. Have heard the LSW described as a 3rd world sniper rifle before now. Perhaps with a more accurate sighting system it can be made to be very effective. I have seen the Spams using a "marksman's" rifle based on the M16 as a coy level fire sp asset seems to work quite well for them. They do use snipers differently to us though.
 
#9
the mistake was to try to use the LSW as a machine gun in which role it was pants.
rather than as a Designated marksman rifle like the m14 or the dragnov
 
#10
of course not its 5.56
what it does have is selective fire so you can take aimed shots or blat away
silly boy
 
#11
If they are going to use it as a designated marksman type weapon, should it have a new sight to replace SUSAT?
 
#12
It has a higher effective range due to the increased length of the barrel, I believe. It also has a more stable platform for aimed, ranged shots due to the fact you can deploy the bipod, so in that sense it is very effective.

Just not as an LMG.
 
#13
Yes a pain to carry, but superb once on the range, very acurate.. a different scope would bring out the best in it, 6X or 8X with a mill dot reticule would do the job. Certinally not an LMG. we had been told that it was to be kept on in Regt units as a counter sniper weapon.....
 
#14
In the RAF Regt its now used by the paltoons as the sharpshooters weapon. Sharpshooters attend a Two week course of which the final test is a two mile approch march and a unknown distance shoot. A Pair of Sharpshooters are then attched to the lightrole guns (GPMG) section
 
#15
Mr_Deputy said:
brighton hippy said:
of course not its 5.56
what it does have is selective fire so you can take aimed shots or blat away
silly boy
Didn't think it did (due to 5.56mm round) but a (rough and ready and only meant as a guide) diagram posted on another forum gave it a longer range although some have suggested the guy who drew up the chart may have listened to alittle too much MOD propaganda!

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=60320/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=375.html


I twas I who knocked up that chart but I did qualify it by stating that the figures used were publically quoted not real world used to compare. Dont want anyone thinking I am more of a cock than might already be the case :D
 
#17
Belt_Twit said:
It has a higher effective range due to the increased length of the barrel, I believe. It also has a more stable platform for aimed, ranged shots due to the fact you can deploy the bipod, so in that sense it is very effective.

Just not as an LMG.
That was always the theory but if the quoted muzzle velocities are to be believed, the extra velocity just doesn't make a difference.
http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/pw/pw_sa80.htm
L86 gives an extra 30m/s, less than 100 feet per second.

A bit too late to show all the ballistics behind this tonight but if anyone is interested I'll dig it out.

I think that if you put a good bipod on an L85A2 you would get pretty much the same effect.

I always found the L85A1 to be very good on the range but poor in the field.

For the length and weight of the L86 you could have an accurised 7.62 scoped semi auto rifle that really would reach out.

If you see what people are doing in competition with 5.56 it will be apparent that beyond 600m it's really struggling, especially with wind

There's always the argument that it's another type of ammunition to carry but let's face it, in 1982 (or as late as 1992 in some units) we had (as infantry):

7.62 ball
7.62 Sniper
7.62 Link (usually 4 ball, 1 Tracer - lets disregard AAD)
9mm ball
66LAW
84LAW
51mm Mortar


Today we have:
40mm GMG
40mm UGL
50BMG link
8.6 ? (338) Sniper
7.62 Link
7.62 Sniper
5.56 Link
5.56 Ball
9mm ball
NLAW/AT4 (or whatever.)
51mm Mortar

Increasing the schedule of 7.62 sniper would be the easiest way to accommodate a 7.62 "sharpshooter" rifle but frankly, even broken down ball from link is quite good enough given the right rifle if nothing else is available.

Bin the 2xLSW per section and have one L85 with Bipod in one fire team and put a 7.62 "sharpshooter" semi-automatic scoped rifle in the other FT.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#18
I have them all and I'm going to use them to arm the Police for the counter coup. I am though ensuring that all the mag release guards are held on with araldite which means that when it rains it all goes horribly wrong, the susat falls of and the safety catch doesnt work. I figure that should take me all of zero minutes to convert the stock of LSWs leaving us clear to storm the winter palace comardes!
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
#19
Rocky_Yeti said:
In the RAF Regt its now used by the paltoons as the sharpshooters weapon. Sharpshooters attend a Two week course of which the final test is a two mile approch march and a unknown distance shoot. A Pair of Sharpshooters are then attched to the lightrole guns (GPMG) section
So much ammunition, I must restrain myself! :twisted:
 
#20
the idea of issuing the LSW with a better scope only to those who complete a sharpshooters course has merit.
if only cause we have them and buying a decent 7.62 DMR is going to cost shekels we don't have :(
not sure the 2mile approach march proves anything but is a legit test for crab air I'm mean if there doing 8 milers something gone seriously wrong :D
 
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