What would make you buy an electric car?

Where did you find this interesting tidbit?

Shafts will bow and bearings will brinel (although short shafts with several bearings won't bow in any meaningful way) but this is not an instantaneous process.
Google is his friend. The cost and energy requirement to drive a wind turbine in extended periods of no wind or in icing conditions are built in to the cost model. It’s negligible in the whole life energy balance and costs; they’re motored very slowly with the blades feathered.

@anglo is trying to argue that wind turbines aren’t viable because he’s picked a few isolated days in the spring when there is high pressure over the UK and little wind. Days which are an entirely predictable part of the UKs weather pattern and which can and are managed now.

He’s trying to claim that on a calm, hot summer day turbines are being power rotated. I don’t think he has a clue about the phenomenon of sea and land breezes.
 

anglo

LE
Where did you find this interesting tidbit?

Shafts will bow and bearings will brinel (although short shafts with several bearings won't bow in any meaningful way) but this is not an instantaneous process.
With the weight of blades and rotors it is a serous problem, starting the blades from the stood
position involves a lot of stress

 
Reading that it appears to me that these electric cars probably emit just as much pollution if not more than a modern petrol unit.
I mean how much Energy does it take to completely scrap and recycle these cars compared to today’s cars? (And the man hours£££.)
A lot more, all those chemical processes to separate all those components, and yet have the powers to be factored in all this?
Have we in the U.K. got the requisite power stations? I would say 2030 is a pipe dream and until the world can efficiently dismantle and re cycle these batteries that’s what it will remain.
Will we just pass the buck and send them to China and India? Probably.
Saying all that if I had a windfall I’d love the new Mustang e by Ford.
Read somewhere (on here?) that manufacturing an EV uses the same amount of energy as a comparable size ICE car plus 60,000 miles.
Having said that, went for a drive with the Son-in-law again yesterday in his Polestar 2.
Amazing performance & technology.
If the price was lower, I'd get one.
Suit me fine, two 30 mile commutes a week.
But I'll stick with the Fiesta.
The other half is due to change hers soon & will probably be the Ford Puma mild hybrid as she does long journeys visiting family.
 
With the weight of blades and rotors it is a serous problem, starting the blades from the stood
position involves a lot of stress

You are rather stating the obvious as if it’s something new that no-one has considered. The start up loads are designed in to the systems and planned for in the cost model. The totality of energy required to start (and stop) turbines is a negligible part of the system energy balance.

The fact is, all power generation systems require energy to start, operate and stop.
 

anglo

LE
Google is his friend. The cost and energy requirement to drive a wind turbine in extended periods of no wind or in icing conditions are built in to the cost model. It’s negligible in the whole life energy balance and costs; they’re motored very slowly with the blades feathered.

@anglo is trying to argue that wind turbines aren’t viable because he’s picked a few isolated days in the spring when there is high pressure over the UK and little wind. Days which are an entirely predictable part of the UKs weather pattern and which can and are managed now.

He’s trying to claim that on a calm, hot summer day turbines are being power rotated. I don’t think he has a clue about the phenomenon of sea and land breezes.
@anglo is trying to argue that wind turbines aren’t viable
where have I said that?
Tell me that this is wrong

because he’s picked a few isolated days,

I have given you proof that it is more than a few days at a stretch

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@anglo is trying to argue that wind turbines aren’t viable
where have I said that?
Tell me that this is wrong

because he’s picked a few isolated days,

I have given you proof that it is more than a few days at a stretch

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Actually, they’re not days are they? They’re screenshots of an instant on each day. They don’t prove your point at all.

Those rare periods where unseasonal high pressure sits over the UK in winter are statistically predictable and are allowed for in capacity planning; IIRC, it currently means that 22% of the wind capacity has to be backed by standby capacity. When the UK experiences seasonal high pressure (in summer), there will always be a sea breeze. If you understood the basics of UK meteorology, you would know that the UKs weather is dominated by Atlantic lows which always bring wind.

You are also ignoring the well publicised installation of storage capacity to fill gaps where there is no wind. As storage capacity increases, the need for standby cover for wind reduces.
 
100 free gallons of petrol
 

anglo

LE
Actually, they’re not days are they? They’re screenshots of an instant on each day. They don’t prove your point at all.

Those rare periods where unseasonal high pressure sits over the UK in winter are statistically predictable and are allowed for in capacity planning; IIRC, it currently means that 22% of the wind capacity has to be backed by standby capacity. When the UK experiences seasonal high pressure (in summer), there will always be a sea breeze. If you understood the basics of UK meteorology, you would know that the UKs weather is dominated by Atlantic lows which always bring wind.

You are also ignoring the well publicised installation of storage capacity to fill gaps where there is no wind. As storage capacity increases, the need for standby cover for wind reduces.
You not be told, here is a monthly screenshot, it shows the output down over a number of days
look how long the output is at 5 GW or lower, go on count the days.
the blue line is the wind

You are also ignoring the well publicised installation of storage capacity to fill gaps where there is no wind. As storage capacity increases, the need for standby cover for wind reduces.


Currently, the UK boasts 1.1GW of operational battery storage capacity – up from 0.7GW in December 2019. A further 0.6GW is under construction, while 8.3GW has been giving planning consent and 1.6GW are in the planning system.9 Feb 2021

Notice the date





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OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
You not be told, here is a monthly screenshot, it shows the output down over a number of days
look how long the output is at 5 GW or lower, go on count the days.
the blue line is the wind
...
Is that the wind coming all the way from Oz?
;)
 

Gout Man

LE
Book Reviewer
Anyone planning on buying one of these? Not exactly a car though....


Ah! It has been a long time coming, but (with now the addition of a roof), this seems to be a natural successor to the . . .

1620564762813.png


The Sinclair C5 is a small one-person battery electric velomobile, technically an "electrically assisted pedal cycle". It was the culmination of Sir Clive Sinclair's long-running interest in electric vehicles. Although widely described as an "electric car", Sinclair characterised it as a "vehicle, not a car".


There was/is a photographer’s shop in Falkirk, that had a C5 covered in promotional material/colours for his business, that he had parked-up outside his shop. Always one to try something new, I asked if I could have go, and he let me “drive” (ride) it round the town-centre.

Yup! Got a few folk staring at it . . . but the most remarkable aspect was waiting at a set of traffic lights, and a double-decker bus drew-up beside me . . . my head was level with the bus wheels!

This new thing seems to be “on trend” with its elevated "SUV" stance !! ;) .
 

anglo

LE
No, I knew exactly what you meant. What slightly surprised me was the assertion ships constantly keep their shafts turning... "a quarter turn once a week" is nearer the mark.

I don't doubt that there isn't quite a parallel, given how much heavier blade assemblies are, but that doesn't strike me as needing constant rotation to keep the shaft straight and the bearings alive...
I think it's easier to keep the giant turbines revolving slowly all the time when the need arises,
rather than stop start them
 

anglo

LE
Whilst we are on about Electric turning of wind turbine blades,

Ironically, many industrial-scale wind turbines require an electric 'kick-start' to begin turning. That’s what overcomes the inertia of getting the blades to start turning.

Upwind turbines face into the wind, while downwind turbines face away. Some of the new generation of wind turbines can work at lower wind speeds, generally about five miles per hour. However these turbines are generally smaller, don’t generate as much energy, and are not designed to withstand higher wind ranges.
Most of what you would call large-scale wind turbines typically start turning in winds of seven to nine miles per hour. Their top speeds are around 50-55 mph, which is their upper safety limit. Large-scale wind turbines normally have a braking system that kicks in around 55 mph to prevent damage to the blades.
How Much Wind Does a Wind Turbine Need? | UNC-TV: Science
 

anglo

LE
Google is his friend. The cost and energy requirement to drive a wind turbine in extended periods of no wind or in icing conditions are built in to the cost model. It’s negligible in the whole life energy balance and costs; they’re motored very slowly with the blades feathered.

@anglo is trying to argue that wind turbines aren’t viable because he’s picked a few isolated days in the spring when there is high pressure over the UK and little wind. Days which are an entirely predictable part of the UKs weather pattern and which can and are managed now.

He’s trying to claim that on a calm, hot summer day turbines are being power rotated. I don’t think he has a clue about the phenomenon of sea and land breezes.
He’s trying to claim that on a calm, hot summer day turbines are being power rotated. I don’t think he has a clue about the phenomenon of sea and land breezes.

In addition to just protecting the gear box and generator shafts and bearings, the blades on a large wind turbine would offer a special challenge with respect to preventing warping and bowing when not in use. For example, on a sunny, windless day, idle wind turbine blades would experience uneven heating from the sun, something that would certainly cause bowing and warping. The only way to prevent this would be to keep the blades moving to even out the sun exposure to all parts of the blade.
 
He’s trying to claim that on a calm, hot summer day turbines are being power rotated. I don’t think he has a clue about the phenomenon of sea and land breezes.

In addition to just protecting the gear box and generator shafts and bearings, the blades on a large wind turbine would offer a special challenge with respect to preventing warping and bowing when not in use. For example, on a sunny, windless day, idle wind turbine blades would experience uneven heating from the sun, something that would certainly cause bowing and warping. The only way to prevent this would be to keep the blades moving to even out the sun exposure to all parts of the blade.
I’m not arguing that turbines aren’t rotated to protect their systems. They are, but it’s an insignificant element of their energy balance. It’s designed for in the installation and planned for in the costings. It’s also no different to any other power source; in case you hadn’t noticed, nuclear plants, coal fired plants and had fired plants all consume electricity in cooling.

You cannot, however, deny the basic weather pattern of the sea breeze. Anyone who has ever sailed a yacht around the UK in summer will tell you that on a calm summer’s day, a sea breeze will kick in early afternoon as the land warms up faster than the sea and hot air starts to rise over the land. That is what I saw happen at Wells; the turbine fleets went from nearly all stationary to all rotating on the space of a few minutes.

By the way, direct drive turbines do not have a gearbox.
 
Interesting article on when manufacturing costs of EV cars will reach parity conventional ones. According to Bloomberg this will take place by 2027.


Electric cars ‘will be cheaper to produce than fossil fuel vehicles by 2027’
The new study, commissioned by Transport & Environment, a Brussels-based non-profit organisation that campaigns for cleaner transport in Europe, predicts new battery prices will fall by 58% between 2020 and 2030 to $58 per kilowatt hour.
 
The new study, commissioned by Transport & Environment, a Brussels-based non-profit organisation that campaigns for cleaner transport in Europe, predicts new battery prices will fall by 58% between 2020 and 2030 to $58 per kilowatt hour.
The trend of battery prices is very promising.
 
So if there are days when the uk wind turbines available aren’t able to supply the power target due to low wind. Wouldn’t part of the solution be to build more, in different places.
 
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