What would make you buy an electric car?

I think you’re pretty much right about this. I also reckon that personal car ownership is finished, assuming that the Government actually follows through with banning sales of ICE and hybrids.
I think that car clubs may be an interim solution, but obviously, the ultimate solution comes with autonomous vehicles. In this scenario, there will be pools of EVs connected to robotic chargers in each neighbourhood, and if you need to go somewhere, you get on your iPad and call up a vehicle, which will autonomously drive round to your house, pick you up and take you where you want to go.
Pay as you go service. No need to worry about ownership, servicing, charging etc.
Pretty bleak if you’re a used car salesman.
Autonomous vehicles? Odd as it may seem, there are considerable parts of the planet that do not have a nice grid road layout, with nice wide, well-defined traffic lanes, at least one in each direction.




Your vehicle encounters another one coming the other way - which one reverses and how far before they can pass? Now the other vehicle is a tractor or lorry and the next widest bit is 5 miles back, then what? After the tractor/lorry has passed, you set off again and meet another one - repeat? How does it pick up a failed haunch on an unmarked country lane, where the hole is of unknown depth due to being full of water?

The level of AI in such a vehicle boggles the mind - we are a long, long way from such a beast. Most of us on this site will be long dead before that happens.
 

wheel

LE
Today we racked up 445 miles in the Volvo (yes, it was an essential journey).

We pulled off to grab a coffee and change driver at the services on the M4 Cardiff after 3 hours in the car at which point I pointed out to SWMBO that her EV would have run out of charge 30 miles earlier, in contrast to the Volvo having used just over 1/4 of a tank (52 mpg) cruising at 70mph with SWMBO's leaden right foot on the accelerator.

Her comment was that we would just have had to pull off at the previous services for a coffee whist we recharged. My comment that I didn't feel like waiting 45 minutes at the services when i could be back on the road having drunk my coffee in 10 minutes plus that our 8 hour drive would have been more like 10 hours was not well received.

She rather likes the new Golf electric, but was less enthusiastic when I pointed out that the base model costs £35,000, and the extended range version another £5k on top of that and even that would require charging at least once on the trip we were doing on less than 3/4 tank of Esso's finest.

In contrast a full fat 184 bhp Golf GTD would cost £28,000, or a more reasonable top spec 150bhp 2.0 tdi for £24,500.
We have the Golf GTD , outstanding on fuel economy , well if you remover her lead foot.
 

anglo

LE
I think you’re pretty much right about this. I also reckon that personal car ownership is finished, assuming that the Government actually follows through with banning sales of ICE and hybrids.
I think that car clubs may be an interim solution, but obviously, the ultimate solution comes with autonomous vehicles. In this scenario, there will be pools of EVs connected to robotic chargers in each neighbourhood, and if you need to go somewhere, you get on your iPad and call up a vehicle, which will autonomously drive round to your house, pick you up and take you where you want to go.
Pay as you go service. No need to worry about ownership, servicing, charging etc.
Pretty bleak if you’re a used car salesman.
Pretty bleak if you’re a used car salesman.

Now that made me laugh

eNsS4urpfL.jpg
 
Me, the wifey and three ankle-biters are going to visit Granny in John O Groats in our new EV. Can you give me an estimate of travelling time to include a 30 minute stop halfway. We'll be travelling from Lands End. :cool:
Approximately 6 weeks.
 

anglo

LE
Autonomous vehicles? Odd as it may seem, there are considerable parts of the planet that do not have a nice grid road layout, with nice wide, well-defined traffic lanes, at least one in each direction.




Your vehicle encounters another one coming the other way - which one reverses and how far before they can pass? Now the other vehicle is a tractor or lorry and the next widest bit is 5 miles back, then what? After the tractor/lorry has passed, you set off again and meet another one - repeat? How does it pick up a failed haunch on an unmarked country lane, where the hole is of unknown depth due to being full of water?

The level of AI in such a vehicle boggles the mind - we are a long, long way from such a beast. Most of us on this site will be long dead before that happens.
There must be some frecker on ARRSE that can answer your post
Unless ARRSE as been defeated, and if that happens the end of the world is near
 

OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
I suspect that is the cost of the storage medium only, the casing, interconnects, charge controller, battery controller, contactor & coolant system that are in the battery enclosure will be an overhead on those costs - plus of course, assembly & shipping of a hazardous item. They are only classed as non-hazardous when shipped as part of a vehicle, not a vehicle part.
It’s just a battery. How difficult can it be?


;)
 

OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
There must be some frecker on ARRSE that can answer your post
Unless ARRSE as been defeated, and if that happens the end of the world is near
Simple: Move to where they will work.


I've no idea if such a place exists yet, if it does, stacker1 will surely have first dibs on the best bits due to outstanding life choices. The rest of us, well, buy a trailer to carry your autonomous vehicle to where it needs to be, using your contraband diesel in your well hidden ICE powered relic of times gone by.
 
Poor people will eventually catch up with the rest of society.
I really hope that was a tongue-in-cheek comment.

I don't think poor people want to be poor but there are more people on low incomes than there are rich people. When someone's income is so low that they are barely paying the bills they will never catch up with average earners let alone the well off. A decent brand new electric vehicle is probably beyond the means of most people right now. And that link you posted to that Chinese POS; I doubt we'll ever see one of those on British roads and I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near one and I'm betting you wouldn't either.
 
, but obviously, the ultimate solution comes with autonomous vehicles.
The world is a very very long way from seeing truly autonomous vehicles on the roads. Yes there are very small, quiet, well defined areas in some major cities which are trialling such vehicles as taxis, yes there are some large truck manufacturers also doing trials. However as start up companies and big well established vehicle manufacturers have found out (the hard way) the safety cases and the work required to actually be able to put these vehicles on the road is exceptionally arduous which is why they're dropping out like flies.
 

OneTenner

LE
Book Reviewer
Kin hell, we are having to use sail now
Nearly, wind turbines - wind in the wrong direction and we're giving power back to nature, or the French, or something
 
I really hope that was a tongue-in-cheek comment.

I don't think poor people want to be poor but there are more people on low incomes than there are rich people. When someone's income is so low that they are barely paying the bills they will never catch up with average earners let alone the well off. A decent brand new electric vehicle is probably beyond the means of most people right now. And that link you posted to that Chinese POS; I doubt we'll ever see one of those on British roads and I certainly wouldn't go anywhere near one and I'm betting you wouldn't either.
Of course I wouldn't drive one, but then I'm not moaning about my finances am I? Yet when presented with a cheap EV you sneering dismiss it as a piece of shit.
Poor people might want to think about helping themselves.
When smartphones first came out, they were expensive, now just about everyone has a smartphone, weird huh? Almost as if the market sorted itself out.
 
I suspect at some stage actual car ownership numbers will fall like a stone as the cost of buying, maintaining and charging an EV will be beyond the reach of an increasing number of Average Joes and Betty's surviving on an Army pension or similar frugal means.. a luxury item, especially for those who do less than 8,000 miles a year

If Joe Average wants to be mobile he joins a car club and books his days out weeks in advance. No more of this "It's a lovely day let's have a day out" stuff... Day to day stuff such as shopping becomes more of a reliance on online delivery. Old folk get used to becoming prisoners in their own homes....

...the future's bleak.... the future's green...
The war against the motorist has been going on for decades now. The green lobby are dead against car use (the luddites that they are) and would be delighted to see us all go backwards. If they succeed then car ownership and travel will be a rich person's privilege.

Had the decision been made to push hydrogen fuel cell vehicles I reckon there would have been more buy-in as refuelling takes no longer than for ICE vehicles and there is no range anxiety either.
 

Tyk

LE
When smartphones first came out, they were expensive, now just about everyone has a smartphone, weird huh? Almost as if the market sorted itself out.

Apples compared to banana's.
I first met mobiles when fitting them in high end cars and trucks (part time job as a student) and I clearly remember the various hand portables coming out, while they lacked the smartphone capabilities the technology was fundamentally very similar to what we have today. It was even practical to carry spare batteries for most of them and a single charge lasted most if not all of a business day, recharging was trivial too as long as you have the charger which fits in a bag or pocket and a domestic socket. Smartphones some 35 years on are about the same other than most don't have the option to swap the battery.
Have an accident with a mobile phone and you're down a few quid to replace it, but you CAN just replace it on any highstreet, plus an accident can't kill a bunch of people directly.
Mobiles had decades to mature technologically, EV's haven't.
EV's are totally different as has been discussed many times, the only similarity being they're powered by a rechargeable battery.
It's a ridiculous comparison you're trying to palm off.
 
Apples compared to banana's.
I first met mobiles when fitting them in high end cars and trucks (part time job as a student) and I clearly remember the various hand portables coming out, while they lacked the smartphone capabilities the technology was fundamentally very similar to what we have today. It was even practical to carry spare batteries for most of them and a single charge lasted most if not all of a business day, recharging was trivial too as long as you have the charger which fits in a bag or pocket and a domestic socket. Smartphones some 35 years on are about the same other than most don't have the option to swap the battery.
Have an accident with a mobile phone and you're down a few quid to replace it, but you CAN just replace it on any highstreet, plus an accident can't kill a bunch of people directly.
Mobiles had decades to mature technologically, EV's haven't.
EV's are totally different as has been discussed many times, the only similarity being they're powered by a rechargeable battery.
It's a ridiculous comparison you're trying to palm off.

We are talking about the cost

Were smartphones expensive or not?

What were the chances of "the poor" affording them when they first came out?

Do the poor manage to have them now?

Even when I put up an example of cheap Chinese EV, people sneer and say they wouldnt have one, Im sure at least some of the poor wont be a fussy as some people on here.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
Apples compared to banana's.
I first met mobiles when fitting them in high end cars and trucks (part time job as a student) and I clearly remember the various hand portables coming out, while they lacked the smartphone capabilities the technology was fundamentally very similar to what we have today. It was even practical to carry spare batteries for most of them and a single charge lasted most if not all of a business day, recharging was trivial too as long as you have the charger which fits in a bag or pocket and a domestic socket. Smartphones some 35 years on are about the same other than most don't have the option to swap the battery.
Have an accident with a mobile phone and you're down a few quid to replace it, but you CAN just replace it on any highstreet, plus an accident can't kill a bunch of people directly.
Mobiles had decades to mature technologically, EV's haven't.
EV's are totally different as has been discussed many times, the only similarity being they're powered by a rechargeable battery.
It's a ridiculous comparison you're trying to palm off.
London had electric taxis in 1897
they could take them back to the depot and exchange batteries in half an hour
thats 124 years of development
 

Tyk

LE
We are talking about the cost

Were smartphones expensive or not?

What were the chances of "the poor" affording them when they first came out?

Do the poor manage to have them now?

Even when I put up an example of cheap Chinese EV, people sneer and say they wouldnt have one, Im sure at least some of the poor wont be a fussy as some people on here.

Initially quite expensive yes, but not even marginally comparable to the cost of a car in annual income terms, 20 years later much less so and today over 30 years later even less so. Not forgetting that mobiles supplied with phone contracts very rapidly became heavily subsidised by the mobile networks, the technology became functionally FREE with an airtime deal quite rapidly hence the mass market penetration.
Today's smartphone is the product of over 30 years as a mass market item with numerous iterations, semi viable EV's have been around about 5 years, the technology is far from matured and won't be by the absurd 2030 date and the cost relative to income of an EV (even a cheap crappy one) compared to a phone is streets different.

That's ignoring the huge functionality gap of charging times and charging supplies for anyone that actually has to get any meaningful distance.

Your comparison is absurd.
 
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