What would make you buy an electric car?

SWMBO has been seduced by the thought of an electric car.

She wants a smallish car, but that sits high like an SUV so she can see better round the country lanes where we live.

The problem is that such a car does not exist. There's the "Mini" [which is a huge lump and doesn't have much range], the Zoe [too small], Honda E [too small, short range], Nissan Leaf [ugly & price starts at £35,000 including government discount], Tesla [too expensive], £36,000 Golf ID3 - she likes but £5k above budget.

Oh, and she doesn't want an auto or too many gadgets.

Yeah, really.h
Electric cars are all (effectively), automatics :( .

Take look at the MG . . . seriously!!

Range not THE best, but definitely (almost!), SUV in height ;) .

Note: I'm NOT refering to the new elec estate car, but the ZS(?) that looks like an SUV :) .
 
Swmbo seems to be the driving force for "uppy" cars as my dearest calls them, Mine is made up with her diesel Kuga, which I quite like myself for different reasons. Being sat up high she can see more...the first manufacturer to put a camera on a pole with sensitive listening devices will clean up.
 
Electric cars are all (effectively), automatics :( .

Take look at the MG . . . seriously!!

Range not THE best, but definitely (almost!), SUV in height ;) .

Note: I'm NOT refering to the new elec estate car, but the ZS(?) that looks like an SUV :) .
MG!! There are non such left....philistine.
 
MG!! There are non such left....philistine.
I'm sure the badges can be removed, or at least covered by "black nasty" !!

Still . . . I'd suggest a look, if you can conceal your frustration, embarrassment, resentment !! ;) .
 
I'm sure the badges can be removed, or at least covered by "black nasty" !!

Still . . . I'd suggest a look, if you can conceal your frustration, embarrassment, resentment !! ;) .
Chinese....abomination.
 
We get a petrol ZS as a courtesy car when our car is being serviced. I have to say, I’m seriously impressed by the quality, value and warranty. It’s not a car I would buy, but I can see why they are selling lots of them here.
Not to me.
 
Not to me.
A fully loaded ZS Essence is $26000 here; about £14000. An equivalent Hyundai Kona is $41000, ~ £22500. If anything, the MG is a nicer car to be in, although it’s a bit of a dull steer. The MG has a 7 year unlimited km warranty; it’s cheap, low risk motoring which is why they’re selling fast here.

The ZS EV is $43500 here, £24,000. A Kona EV is north of $70k. I can see the MG being the car that brings EVs to the mass market.
 
It wont be long before the electricity company own the plug in points as part of a wider "smart grid'.

The industry is relying on using those batteries to balance the grid, you will sign up to an EV, smart meter, solar etc. through your power company so I cannot see 'Morrisons' being permitted to feed back solar into the grid at the expense of you and the power companies when you have already committed your capacity to them when its plugged in.

Edit: Didn’t mean solar, meant battery capacity
 
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A fully loaded ZS Essence is $26000 here; about £14000. An equivalent Hyundai Kona is $41000, ~ £22500. If anything, the MG is a nicer car to be in, although it’s a bit of a dull steer. The MG has a 7 year unlimited km warranty; it’s cheap, low risk motoring which is why they’re selling fast here.

The ZS EV is $43500 here, £24,000. A Kona EV is north of $70k. I can see the MG being the car that brings EVs to the mass market.

I fancy a Mustang EV!

 

anglo

LE
I think the new Nissan Leaf to be sold with a feed in charger? New Tesla Model 3s have V2G have an internal inverter which exports AC though a CVS2 connector, but I think that is more about future proofing your vehicle. The alternative with a Tesla would be a Home Pack.

Tesla has applied for a UK electricity distribution licence.
Update: It has come to our attention that the engineer who made the claim that Tesla is putting V2G technology in its cars may have mistaken a diode for a transistor, and therefore Tesla circuitry is not bidirectional. You can learn more about what this means here

 

anglo

LE
It's a good job we have the experts running things, I don't see any problems with
this move to EVs,


How the grid will cope, simple really,
My comments are shown in brackets, IE { }

1st December 2020 - Journey to net zero
National Grid PLC
The transition to electric vehicles is speeding up and here Graeme Cooper, our Transport Decarbonisation Director, explains how the grid is ready to cope.

As the journey towards mass adoption of electric vehicles (EVs) speeds up, it’s vital that there’s enough clean energy to power this transport revolution. Transport Decarbonisation Director Graeme Cooper has long championed the adoption of EVs and is confident the grid can support the extra demand for electricity this transition will create

.{ Transport Decarbonisation Director, Well you should know what's what}

"There is definitely enough energy and the grid can cope easily,”{really} he explains. “The growth in renewable energy means this is not static and smart metering will make this more efficient

.{when is this magic going to be installed}

For example, the growth in wind power from the extra offshore wind farms being developed will adequately meet the future demand for electrifying transport – an extra 100 terawatt hours from our current 300 terawatt hours consume.
{Zero output when there is no wind, we have 10,000 wind turbines now, and we still see less than 1Gw at times }

There is definitely enough energy and the grid can cope easily.

{Do tell}

"Preparations have been underway for a while, as we’ve been discussing how best we can work towards the green transport changeover with government, electricity distribution companies, who transport the energy from the grid to homes and businesses, service station operators and charge point providers for over two years.

"{have you made any decisions yet as to when all this work will start, now this grid thingy?}

Progressing towards green transport

{A non statement}

Things are beginning to move forwards as Chancellor Rishi Sunak recently announced green transport funding of £1.3 billion, an increase from £500 million in the March 2020 Budget. And Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s announcement of a 10-point green plan included an ending of the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030, speeding up the changeover to electric cars by 10 years

.{ Well at least someone is going to make a lot of money,
would that be the talk shops}

Decarbonising cars is an important element of creating a greener future and reaching net zero. Transporting people and goods is responsible for around 28% of UK carbon emissions, equating to 126 million tonnes of CO2.

{right, now tell more about how the Grid will cope}

People are already beginning to embrace this shift and sales of EVs tripled in October 2020 versus the same month in 2019. They’re now sold in similar numbers to diesel cars – around one in seven of all new cars sold. Without the impact of COVID lockdown, EV sales would have been expected to rise even further

.{are you a EV salesman/person now}


The 2030 ban does mean the transition to electric cars will be faster than anticipated, but ‘range anxiety’ and concern over access to chargers remain barriers for many

.{true, now back to the grid}

Stopping range anxiety
“We realized high power, en-route charging would be critical to the success of electric vehicle take-up,” Graeme explains.
"Even though typical driving patterns don’t require us to drive very far – the principle car in a family averages 36 miles a day and if you have a second car, then that only does 11 miles a day – people still worry about how EVs will cope with the more exceptional, long journeys."For people to make that switch to an electric car, they need the confidence that charging won’t be a hindrance for those ‘out of pattern’ journeys – the family emergency or the holiday.

{true, now back to the subject in hand, the grid}

"But you don’t need a 500-mile range battery car because nobody drives 500 miles non-stop,” he says. “The limiting factor is biological – it’s how long you need between comfort breaks or ‘bladder range’.You don’t need a 500-mile range battery car because nobody drives 500 miles non-stop. The limiting factor is actually biological – it’s ‘bladder range’.’.

{no shit Sherlock}

“If your ‘bladder range’ is three hours driving – about 200 miles – what you want is to stop and charge your car quickly in the time it takes to walk across the forecourt to the services, have a comfort break, buy a sandwich and a cup of coffee and get back to your car – and drive the next 200 miles.

{that's interesting, but err, the grid

“We’re not picky what technology eventually wins, but what is needed are grid connections nicely spaced that are the most efficient and most economic,” says Graeme.
Country – pylons tend to be right next to the road and train network

{I see, would that be a couple of bulldogs clips on a EHT voltage line, good luck with that}

Anywhere charging
While the grid will play a key role in providing energy infrastructure for motorway journeys, you’ll see charging points everywhere in the near future – outside the cinema, your regular supermarket, your workplace, the train station, and, of course, your home.{Hello, I thought we were discussing the grid}
There’s also a hidden benefit to the growth in mainstream EVs – they’ll help us think more about how we use energy: “Smart chargers that encourage consumers to charge outside of peak times will play a key role here, enabling drivers to access the cheapest and cleanest energy at the most convenient place,” says Graeme

.{ Do they actually pay you for this bullshit}

{There you have it, that is how the grid will cope}

 

tgo

War Hero
SWMBO has been seduced by the thought of an electric car.

She wants a smallish car, but that sits high like an SUV so she can see better round the country lanes where we live.

The problem is that such a car does not exist. There's the "Mini" [which is a huge lump and doesn't have much range], the Zoe [too small], Honda E [too small, short range], Nissan Leaf [ugly & price starts at £35,000 including government discount], Tesla [too expensive], £36,000 Golf ID3 - she likes but £5k above budget.

Oh, and she doesn't want an auto or too many gadgets.

Yeah, really.
Your Doris might have a bit of a disappointment, all electric & hybrids are automatic, as the way lecy works is all torque all times, no requirement for a manual. Give it another 3-5 yrs no new car will be a manual.
 
It's a good job we have the experts running things, I don't see any problems with
this move to EVs,


How the grid will cope, simple really,
My comments are shown in brackets, IE { }

1st December 2020 - Journey to net zero
National Grid PLC
The transition to electric vehicles is speeding up and here Graeme Cooper, our Transport Decarbonisation Director, explains how the grid is ready to cope.

As the journey towards mass adoption of electric vehicles (EVs) speeds up, it’s vital that there’s enough clean energy to power this transport revolution. Transport Decarbonisation Director Graeme Cooper has long championed the adoption of EVs and is confident the grid can support the extra demand for electricity this transition will create

.{ Transport Decarbonisation Director, Well you should know what's what}

"There is definitely enough energy and the grid can cope easily,”{really} he explains. “The growth in renewable energy means this is not static and smart metering will make this more efficient

.{when is this magic going to be installed}

For example, the growth in wind power from the extra offshore wind farms being developed will adequately meet the future demand for electrifying transport – an extra 100 terawatt hours from our current 300 terawatt hours consume.
{Zero output when there is no wind, we have 10,000 wind turbines now, and we still see less than 1Gw at times }

There is definitely enough energy and the grid can cope easily.

{Do tell}

"Preparations have been underway for a while, as we’ve been discussing how best we can work towards the green transport changeover with government, electricity distribution companies, who transport the energy from the grid to homes and businesses, service station operators and charge point providers for over two years.

"{have you made any decisions yet as to when all this work will start, now this grid thingy?}

Progressing towards green transport

{A non statement}

Things are beginning to move forwards as Chancellor Rishi Sunak recently announced green transport funding of £1.3 billion, an increase from £500 million in the March 2020 Budget. And Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s announcement of a 10-point green plan included an ending of the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030, speeding up the changeover to electric cars by 10 years

.{ Well at least someone is going to make a lot of money,
would that be the talk shops}

Decarbonising cars is an important element of creating a greener future and reaching net zero. Transporting people and goods is responsible for around 28% of UK carbon emissions, equating to 126 million tonnes of CO2.

{right, now tell more about how the Grid will cope}

People are already beginning to embrace this shift and sales of EVs tripled in October 2020 versus the same month in 2019. They’re now sold in similar numbers to diesel cars – around one in seven of all new cars sold. Without the impact of COVID lockdown, EV sales would have been expected to rise even further

.{are you a EV salesman/person now}


The 2030 ban does mean the transition to electric cars will be faster than anticipated, but ‘range anxiety’ and concern over access to chargers remain barriers for many

.{true, now back to the grid}

Stopping range anxiety
“We realized high power, en-route charging would be critical to the success of electric vehicle take-up,” Graeme explains.
"Even though typical driving patterns don’t require us to drive very far – the principle car in a family averages 36 miles a day and if you have a second car, then that only does 11 miles a day – people still worry about how EVs will cope with the more exceptional, long journeys."For people to make that switch to an electric car, they need the confidence that charging won’t be a hindrance for those ‘out of pattern’ journeys – the family emergency or the holiday.

{true, now back to the subject in hand, the grid}

"But you don’t need a 500-mile range battery car because nobody drives 500 miles non-stop,” he says. “The limiting factor is biological – it’s how long you need between comfort breaks or ‘bladder range’.You don’t need a 500-mile range battery car because nobody drives 500 miles non-stop. The limiting factor is actually biological – it’s ‘bladder range’.’.

{no shit Sherlock}

“If your ‘bladder range’ is three hours driving – about 200 miles – what you want is to stop and charge your car quickly in the time it takes to walk across the forecourt to the services, have a comfort break, buy a sandwich and a cup of coffee and get back to your car – and drive the next 200 miles.

{that's interesting, but err, the grid

“We’re not picky what technology eventually wins, but what is needed are grid connections nicely spaced that are the most efficient and most economic,” says Graeme.
Country – pylons tend to be right next to the road and train network

{I see, would that be a couple of bulldogs clips on a EHT voltage line, good luck with that}

Anywhere charging
While the grid will play a key role in providing energy infrastructure for motorway journeys, you’ll see charging points everywhere in the near future – outside the cinema, your regular supermarket, your workplace, the train station, and, of course, your home.{Hello, I thought we were discussing the grid}
There’s also a hidden benefit to the growth in mainstream EVs – they’ll help us think more about how we use energy: “Smart chargers that encourage consumers to charge outside of peak times will play a key role here, enabling drivers to access the cheapest and cleanest energy at the most convenient place,” says Graeme

.{ Do they actually pay you for this bullshit}

{There you have it, that is how the grid will cope}

The sale of new petrol and diesel engined cars will cease in 2030. Maybe the grid won´t be able to cope, maybe you won´t be able to tow your caravan very far, maybe people without off road parking won´t be able to charge their cars. It matters not.
 
It's a good job we have the experts running things, I don't see any problems with
this move to EVs,


How the grid will cope, simple really,
My comments are shown in brackets, IE { }

1st December 2020 - Journey to net zero
National Grid PLC
The transition to electric vehicles is speeding up and here Graeme Cooper, our Transport Decarbonisation Director, explains how the grid is ready to cope.

As the journey towards mass adoption of electric vehicles (EVs) speeds up, it’s vital that there’s enough clean energy to power this transport revolution. Transport Decarbonisation Director Graeme Cooper has long championed the adoption of EVs and is confident the grid can support the extra demand for electricity this transition will create

.{ Transport Decarbonisation Director, Well you should know what's what}

"There is definitely enough energy and the grid can cope easily,”{really} he explains. “The growth in renewable energy means this is not static and smart metering will make this more efficient

.{when is this magic going to be installed}

For example, the growth in wind power from the extra offshore wind farms being developed will adequately meet the future demand for electrifying transport – an extra 100 terawatt hours from our current 300 terawatt hours consume.
{Zero output when there is no wind, we have 10,000 wind turbines now, and we still see less than 1Gw at times }

There is definitely enough energy and the grid can cope easily.

{Do tell}

"Preparations have been underway for a while, as we’ve been discussing how best we can work towards the green transport changeover with government, electricity distribution companies, who transport the energy from the grid to homes and businesses, service station operators and charge point providers for over two years.

"{have you made any decisions yet as to when all this work will start, now this grid thingy?}

Progressing towards green transport

{A non statement}

Things are beginning to move forwards as Chancellor Rishi Sunak recently announced green transport funding of £1.3 billion, an increase from £500 million in the March 2020 Budget. And Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s announcement of a 10-point green plan included an ending of the sale of new petrol and diesel cars by 2030, speeding up the changeover to electric cars by 10 years

.{ Well at least someone is going to make a lot of money,
would that be the talk shops}

Decarbonising cars is an important element of creating a greener future and reaching net zero. Transporting people and goods is responsible for around 28% of UK carbon emissions, equating to 126 million tonnes of CO2.

{right, now tell more about how the Grid will cope}

People are already beginning to embrace this shift and sales of EVs tripled in October 2020 versus the same month in 2019. They’re now sold in similar numbers to diesel cars – around one in seven of all new cars sold. Without the impact of COVID lockdown, EV sales would have been expected to rise even further

.{are you a EV salesman/person now}


The 2030 ban does mean the transition to electric cars will be faster than anticipated, but ‘range anxiety’ and concern over access to chargers remain barriers for many

.{true, now back to the grid}

Stopping range anxiety
“We realized high power, en-route charging would be critical to the success of electric vehicle take-up,” Graeme explains.
"Even though typical driving patterns don’t require us to drive very far – the principle car in a family averages 36 miles a day and if you have a second car, then that only does 11 miles a day – people still worry about how EVs will cope with the more exceptional, long journeys."For people to make that switch to an electric car, they need the confidence that charging won’t be a hindrance for those ‘out of pattern’ journeys – the family emergency or the holiday.

{true, now back to the subject in hand, the grid}

"But you don’t need a 500-mile range battery car because nobody drives 500 miles non-stop,” he says. “The limiting factor is biological – it’s how long you need between comfort breaks or ‘bladder range’.You don’t need a 500-mile range battery car because nobody drives 500 miles non-stop. The limiting factor is actually biological – it’s ‘bladder range’.’.

{no shit Sherlock}

“If your ‘bladder range’ is three hours driving – about 200 miles – what you want is to stop and charge your car quickly in the time it takes to walk across the forecourt to the services, have a comfort break, buy a sandwich and a cup of coffee and get back to your car – and drive the next 200 miles.

{that's interesting, but err, the grid

“We’re not picky what technology eventually wins, but what is needed are grid connections nicely spaced that are the most efficient and most economic,” says Graeme.
Country – pylons tend to be right next to the road and train network

{I see, would that be a couple of bulldogs clips on a EHT voltage line, good luck with that}

Anywhere charging
While the grid will play a key role in providing energy infrastructure for motorway journeys, you’ll see charging points everywhere in the near future – outside the cinema, your regular supermarket, your workplace, the train station, and, of course, your home.{Hello, I thought we were discussing the grid}
There’s also a hidden benefit to the growth in mainstream EVs – they’ll help us think more about how we use energy: “Smart chargers that encourage consumers to charge outside of peak times will play a key role here, enabling drivers to access the cheapest and cleanest energy at the most convenient place,” says Graeme

.{ Do they actually pay you for this bullshit}

{There you have it, that is how the grid will cope}

What’s wrong with the grid?

Doesn’t it already cope with massive oversupply at night only to compensate during the day for EVs to fill in when renewables may under supply?
 
Me, the wifey and three ankle-biters are going to visit Granny in John O Groats in our new EV. Can you give me an estimate of travelling time to include a 30 minute stop halfway. We'll be travelling from Lands End. :cool:
 

anglo

LE
What’s wrong with the grid?

Doesn’t it already cope with massive oversupply at night only to compensate during the day for EVs to fill in when renewables may under supply?
No.
Yesterday's grid,

grid 9.png
 

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