What would make you buy an electric car?

There is cheap electricity at night,:clap:
Let's see what is really happening.
Question. Are they still making a profit on the night sale of electricity?
Yes, of course they are.
Does that mean they are making an excess of profit during the day, by selling at a higher price.
Yes, it does.
Shouldn't we be saying, the price of electricity is expensive during the day?
Encouraging people to use power at night is a hang over from the old coal power station days**
there is no need to do it now with the gas power stations, they are trying to avoid building more
power stations, the UK is no longer self-sufficient, we will see our arse sooner or later

The UK can no longer meet its own heat and power demands with indigenous supply.
In 2000 UK was self-sufficient in energy and as recently as 2004, the UK was a net exporter of energy, however by 2010, more than 25% of UK energy was imported. Now UK reliance on imports from Norway, interconnectors to western Europe and LNG shipped in from Qatar and now also the USA, has been increasing. It is currently unknown what type of deal will be agreed with the EU for trade relationships, however what we do know is that the UK is likely to have a weaker negotiating position for trading arrangements and be more peripheral to the markets. Not only will this mean higher prices for energy imports at a time when the pound is increasingly weak and our purchasing power has been reduced, but also an increase in the risks that the energy supply will not be available at times when EU members face difficulties meeting their own energy demands.
** I will explain that if anybody is interested
In that post, you have demonstrated that you haven’t got a single clue about how the UK wholesale energy market works.
 

Tyk

LE
But you can't buy a second hand EV for £2k... it's not an option for new drivers

That's not a concern for the governing elite types, they're wealthy enough that their offspring will get a new Tesla or whatever the flash flavour of the month is when they're new drivers.

Despite the fact that outside of the metropolitan cities where there is some or even decent public transport, there's a large desire that Joe and Jane Public are forced off the roads. The fact it will be an utter pain in the nuts for those people isn't an issue as it's a positive in the green agenda religion.
 
That's not a concern for the governing elite types, they're wealthy enough that their offspring will get a new Tesla or whatever the flash flavour of the month is when they're new drivers.

Despite the fact that outside of the metropolitan cities where there is some or even decent public transport, there's a large desire that Joe and Jane Public are forced off the roads. The fact it will be an utter pain in the nuts for those people isn't an issue as it's a positive in the green agenda religion.
In fact we will be taking transportation for the masses back a 100 years.
 

Tyk

LE
In that post, you have demonstrated that you haven’t got a single clue about how the UK wholesale energy market works.

You say that, but if the UK actually generated electricity to meet demand then there would be no need to import.

In theory wind and other renewables should be very low cost to produce in these days of sky rocketing fuel prices, your pedantic argument over the way the market operates doesn't obscure the fact that the prices are going up as if they were rocket propelled.

IF renewables, which the UK has concentrated around wind were actually a viable, reliable, dependable producer then we wouldn't be stuck with :-
  1. Importing electricity - This country was and still should be, self sufficient for many strategically important reasons
  2. Sizable price hikes causing genuine problems to lower income people due to shortages on the world markets
  3. Real concerns about how to supply power in sufficient quantities to business
  4. Real concerns about how to supply power in sufficient quantities to charge EV's which will get exponentially worse should EV sales really take off like they very well could
  5. Green lobby would rightly be shut the F up
Your endless wobbling on about the markets does NOT obfuscate the point that the current renewables we have aren't up to the task NOW, let alone in the future. We simply don't have the generating capacity, not even close to it and Wind, while appealing, isn't up to the job, despite the UK generally being a fairly windy place.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
There is cheap electricity at night,:clap:
Let's see what is really happening.
Question. Are they still making a profit on the night sale of electricity?
Yes, of course they are.
Does that mean they are making an excess of profit during the day, by selling at a higher price.
Yes, it does.
Shouldn't we be saying, the price of electricity is expensive during the day?
Encouraging people to use power at night is a hang over from the old coal power station days**
there is no need to do it now with the gas power stations, they are trying to avoid building more
power stations, the UK is no longer self-sufficient, we will see our arse sooner or later

The UK can no longer meet its own heat and power demands with indigenous supply.
In 2000 UK was self-sufficient in energy and as recently as 2004, the UK was a net exporter of energy, however by 2010, more than 25% of UK energy was imported. Now UK reliance on imports from Norway, interconnectors to western Europe and LNG shipped in from Qatar and now also the USA, has been increasing. It is currently unknown what type of deal will be agreed with the EU for trade relationships, however what we do know is that the UK is likely to have a weaker negotiating position for trading arrangements and be more peripheral to the markets. Not only will this mean higher prices for energy imports at a time when the pound is increasingly weak and our purchasing power has been reduced, but also an increase in the risks that the energy supply will not be available at times when EU members face difficulties meeting their own energy demands.
** I will explain that if anybody is interested
In fact we will be taking transportation for the masses back a 100 years.
I wish, 100 years ago we had superb railways
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
True and a vastly smaller population with far less reason to travel.
Society has evolved around easy, relatively cheap, available on demand travel, stepping back from that is a monumental upheaval.
We mobilised our much larger army by train in 1914
 

Tyk

LE
We mobilised our much larger army by train in 1914

In case I wasn't clear I agree with you very strongly.
Many decades of ignoring the railways as what needs to be a public service for the effective transportation of people and goods is nothing short of a disgrace. 100+ years ago most even small towns had relatively easy access to the rail network and frequent services, it was a strategic resource that, as you rightly said, was mobilised to move entire armies about efficiently. That's ignoring the goods that didn't require roads to be shifted around as they went via train.
The Victorians laid the basis for a hugely effective transport network that generations of neglect by governments of every flavour allowed and even encouraged to decay.
 
I wish, 100 years ago we had superb railways
Hmm not so sure about that. It was so bankrupt in 1922 that Parliament had to agree to the grouping rather than nationalisation, (the preferred option) we certainly had more rail, but the Government of the day started to back Road haulage which under cut the railways to protect the motor industry and to give work to loads of driver squaddies. Debt was caused by 4 years of war at 1914 rates not paid back and the sheer effort of the railways in doing it. Coaching stock had largely had it and was largely Victorian. Yes you could get where you were going, relatively quickly but that was about it.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
Hmm not so sure about that. It was so bankrupt in 1922 that Parliament had to agree to the grouping rather than nationalisation, (the preferred option) we certainly had more rail, but the Government of the day started to back Road haulage which under cut the railways to protect the motor industry and to give work to loads of driver squaddies. Debt was caused by 4 years of war at 1914 rates not paid back and the sheer effort of the railways in doing it. Coaching stock had largely had it and was largely Victorian. Yes you could get where you were going, relatively quickly but that was about it.
It was only tatty because of the war effort and the lack of reimbursement for that effort
Some railway lines were single lined during the war and the track shipped overseas to be lost for ever
Eta; the glut of post war lorries available as surplus and the govt imposed minimum charge for rail freight helped kill the rural networks but the railway companies had rationalised on their own long before the Great War
 
Of course not. They are supposed to own nothing and be happy, remember

For plenty of people in cities, car sharing is pretty good.

I used ZipCar for about 2 years and never had an issue with it at all - it worked out much cheaper, and (for me) just as convenient as owning my own car. No insurance/VED/Fuel/Servicing/Parts to pay for - was great.
 
It was only tatty because of the war effort and the lack of reimbursement for that effort
Some railway lines were single lined during the war and the track shipped overseas to be lost for ever
But that’s the point, before the war, it was relatively fine, given the times. After the war it wasn’t, 100 years ago was 1922 only 4 years and we can commemorate the General strike.
 

ugly

LE
Moderator
But that’s the point, before the war, it was relatively fine, given the times. After the war it wasn’t, 100 years ago was 1922 only 4 years and we can commemorate the General strike.
Due to govt meddling in private companies during the war and immediately after
 
At £6.30 a gallon and 30 mpg, my annual fuel cost is 2k or thereabouts in my old banger worth a grand, I would never get ahead in my lifetime by buying an EV costing loads, granted I could buy a S/H tiddler one for maybe 3-4 years worth of petrol, but I need a car with space that can tow.

Lots of ICE owners are in the same boat, EV's are just 100% out of the picture for the majority of normal working folk, or retired on a normal pension etc.

I know a few people who have them, almost without exception they are very comfortable or retired on good pensions, but a couple of "normal" folk have a leaf or older Prius as they are big on the planet and re-cycling etc. so a lifestyle statement choice that suits their outlook and use.

But they are thin on the ground in rural areas for sure as I notice when I go to more urban areas where they might make more sense. In Herefordshire there are 500 EV's registerd I understand, out of a population of 200.000 or so, probably 10 times as many Diesel 4x4 pickups around from what I see when out and about.

Ifor Williams badges are what you see more than Tesla or the like round these parts where stuff earns a living or is kept till it don't work anymore...
Fair enough, you don’t sound like the type of bloke that splashes out on new expensive vehicles anyway. An interesting part of @exbluejob bbc article, it said that they expect parity between equivalent EV and ICE cars by 2030. That will undoubtedly trickle down. Also the market will drive used trade, if people can’t afford used EV now then the pricing will drop.

Interesting too that the industry thinks tax rates for on the go charging may lower.

I remains though that private off road charging is the way ti go right now.
 

Tyk

LE
Fair enough, you don’t sound like the type of bloke that splashes out on new expensive vehicles anyway. An interesting part of @exbluejob bbc article, it said that they expect parity between equivalent EV and ICE cars by 2030. That will undoubtedly trickle down. Also the market will drive used trade, if people can’t afford used EV now then the pricing will drop.

Interesting too that the industry thinks tax rates for on the go charging may lower.

I remains though that private off road charging is the way ti go right now.

It's possible that tax rates may drop, but I think it's extremely improbable.
I fully expect car charging to be taxed at ever increasing rates as revenues from fuel sales and VED drop. Charging stations will see taxation applied and the taxation of home supplies for charging is a matter of time, as per the article linked recently a "smart" meter will be required and anyone who doesn't see where that leads is being blind or wilfully naïve. Fully expect some new offences on the statute books for avoiding the car charging taxes too.
 

exbluejob

LE
Book Reviewer
Charging stations will see taxation applied and the taxation of home supplies for charging is a matter of time, as per the article linked recently a "smart" meter will be required and anyone who doesn't see where that leads is being blind or wilfully naïve. Fully expect some new offences on the statute books for avoiding the car charging taxes too.
In the article it states that anyone who got a subsidised home charger had to have smart meters. From June that's rolled out to the masses. You can bet your sweet patooties that there is some jiggery pokery in the wigglyamps that tells the energy supplier when you're charging your EV. Instead of the government hoovering up petrol duty collected by the oil companies they'll now get it by the energy suppliers. No government chasing people to cough up the readies, not my job Guv. Cheers easy
 

tgo

LE
In the article it states that anyone who got a subsidised home charger had to have smart meters. From June that's rolled out to the masses. You can bet your sweet patooties that there is some jiggery pokery in the wigglyamps that tells the energy supplier when you're charging your EV. Instead of the government hoovering up petrol duty collected by the oil companies they'll now get it by the energy suppliers. No government chasing people to cough up the readies, not my job Guv. Cheers easy
I doubt it would need to be much jiggery pokery, I cant think of any other domestic appliance that draws 7 KW at all let alone for an extended period.
 

Blogg

LE
For plenty of people in cities, car sharing is pretty good.

I used ZipCar for about 2 years and never had an issue with it at all - it worked out much cheaper, and (for me) just as convenient as owning my own car. No insurance/VED/Fuel/Servicing/Parts to pay for - was great.
 
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