What would make you buy an electric car?

[bobthebuilder]

Just my bad wording

The government’s prediction (which I posted months ago) is that ICE cars will not reduce to insignificant levels until 2045.
Really, which post was that

My interpretation of the grid statistics, is correct, you made a right twat of yourself there.

Of course it was just bad wording…..or it could be that you’ve just been found out and you don’t have the integrity to admit it.

And no, your interpretation of the grid statistics is not correct. It’s based on fundamental ignorance of the market structure. I’ve previously posted links to articles and papers by Lane Clarke Peacock which destroy your argument and clearly demonstrate that the UK currently switches off renewables when they could generate because they cannot sell in to the Capacity Market.

There’s a wealth of information on their website; they provide much of the data and analysis on which investment decisions are made and government policy is set. Their latest market analysis indicates that, at current investment trends, the UK will have a 24/7/365 surplus of renewables at current rates of investment by 2030.

Read beyond the Express; you might learn something.

 

[Robs dad]

So, I am very sceptical of electric vehicles, and the lack of thought into infrastructure.

I'm a sceptic on the true viability of EVs as a replacement transportation means when compared to ICE (assuming the 2030 date is kept to and there's no significant change to the in-car storage or range issues in the meantime), but as a recently retired traffic management engineer with a local Council I do have to raise a comment about the 'lack of thought about infrastructure' in support of my ex-colleagues.

One of the projects I worked on was delivery of on-street charging posts in residential streets where the properties were primarily Victorian terrace with no off-street parking.

NIMBYs.... my God, but they are EVERYWHERE!! ...and boy, do they make it hard work to deliver anything!
The level of opposition to just a simple proposal to provide one on-street charging post was mind boggling. In one of the longer residential roads closer to the town centre we tried to introduce four posts.!.. How DARE we!! ....just simple posts fed from adjacent lamp columns with a trickle 3.7kW supply, so mainly aimed at providing charge for overnight parking by residents.

EV ownership numbers at that time were of course low, but 'Build it and they will come!' was the principle...

Two years of consultation... two years...!!. or was it three? ..or maybe four... ..and that was just the arguing stage... it felt longer as we pretty much got nowhere with some residents and their self-appointed committees of like-minded curtain twitchers ...

People may support on-street charging in principle, as long as the charge post isn't outside their house ("that's MY parking spot!... and I can't afford an EV and I don't want 'other people' to park there") or "the charge post MUST be directly outside my house for me to support!!" ...even though the engineering effort to provide ducting that distance from the lamp column was unviable.... all the way through to residents physically preventing construction for weeks on end, or continually damaging infrastructure once in place.

Unsurprisingly the project hasn't moved much further in the year since I left, although I did manage to install 36 of the on-street posts around the town eventually.

I also had put everything in place before I left, ready to implement an Experimental Traffic Regulation Order to reserve the parking spots alongside those posts for exclusive use by resident permit parking holders with EVs, but when push came to shove local Councillors didn't want that to be progressed either, despite calling for 'action' for years as they didn't want to deal with any more objection from those bledy pensioner aged residents with nothing better to do who had no intention of ever owning an EV anyway.....

There.... got that off me chest....

 

[mechanicalhorsetrough]

I'm a sceptic on the true viability of EVs as a replacement transportation means when compared to ICE (assuming the 2030 date is kept to and there's no significant change to the in-car storage or range issues in the meantime), but as a recently retired traffic management engineer with a local Council I do have to raise a comment about the 'lack of thought about infrastructure' in support of my ex-colleagues.

One of the projects I worked on was delivery of on-street charging posts in residential streets where the properties were primarily Victorian terrace with no off-street parking.

NIMBYs.... my God, but they are EVERYWHERE!! ...and boy, do they make it hard work to deliver anything!
The level of opposition to just a simple proposal to provide one on-street charging post was mind boggling. In one of the longer residential roads closer to the town centre we tried to introduce four posts.!.. How DARE we!! ....just simple posts fed from adjacent lamp columns with a trickle 3.7kW supply, so mainly aimed at providing charge for overnight parking by residents.

EV ownership numbers at that time were of course low, but 'Build it and they will come!' was the principle...

Two years of consultation... two years...!!. or was it three? ..or maybe four... ..and that was just the arguing stage... it felt longer as we pretty much got nowhere with some residents and their self-appointed committees of like-minded curtain twitchers ...

People may support on-street charging in principle, as long as the charge post isn't outside their house ("that's MY parking spot!... and I can't afford an EV and I don't want 'other people' to park there") or "the charge post MUST be directly outside my house for me to support!!" ...even though the engineering effort to provide ducting that distance from the lamp column was unviable.... all the way through to residents physically preventing construction for weeks on end, or continually damaging infrastructure once in place.

Unsurprisingly the project hasn't moved much further in the year since I left, although I did manage to install 36 of the on-street posts around the town eventually.

I also had put everything in place before I left, ready to implement an Experimental Traffic Regulation Order to reserve the parking spots alongside those posts for exclusive use by resident permit parking holders with EVs, but when push came to shove local Councillors didn't want that to be progressed either, despite calling for 'action' for years as they didn't want to deal with any more objection from those bledy pensioner aged residents with nothing better to do who had no intention of ever owning an EV anyway.....

There.... got that off me chest....

Thanks, a great response and PoV from the other side of the table, and I totally sympathise with your ex-colleagues who have to put up with such BS.
My only retort would be that, yes, the NIMBY’s are complete and utter gutter f*cks, but the local councils are not exactly pushing for this to happen, especially non-Tory councils. The fact they are consulting with these NIMBY’s in the first place, and for long periods, shows a lack of commitment. Just do it, they wouldn’t consult about changing incandescent lampposts for LED, or painting double yellow lines down the curb, so why consult about fitting charging posts, fit them, and prosecute any vandals or protesters. Isn’t this for the “Greater Good” after all?

 

[Cent 05ZR70]

.......... The government’s prediction (which I posted months ago) ...............

Ah! you're on firm ground there.

 

[Conniesdad]

Thanks, a great response and PoV from the other side of the table, and I totally sympathise with your ex-colleagues who have to put up with such BS.
My only retort would be that, yes, the NIMBY’s are complete and utter gutter f*cks, but the local councils are not exactly pushing for this to happen, especially non-Tory councils. The fact they are consulting with these NIMBY’s in the first place, and for long periods, shows a lack of commitment. Just do it, they wouldn’t consult about changing incandescent lampposts for LED, or painting double yellow lines down the curb, so why consult about fitting charging posts, fit them, and prosecute any vandals or protesters. Isn’t this for the “Greater Good” after all?

In the People's Republic of Brent, the council have put charging points in some of the lampposts. They are in the posts not directly next to house driveways. The ones in the street adjacent to mine glow sadly in the night, almost completely unused. There are a few electric cars in the road but no one uses these points. Perhaps the cost of electricity, or the ability to charge, even by three pin plug in your driveway trumps any advantage in speed.

 

[Robs dad]

If I had my way the choice of locations for charge posts would have been determined by engineering decisions, with limited consultation rather than the full-blown 'public meetings, newspaper adverts and resident surveys' route we were forced to follow.

It's politics though innit... worse than that, it's small town local Councillor politics...
..and those Councillors get voted in/out periodically and they don't like experts such as traffic engineers telling them that schemes are being introduced and public monies are being spent without them having a chance to grandstand and 'represent the people' in a fluffy public engagement exercise...

. Just do it, they wouldn’t consult about [snip] painting double yellow lines down the curb, so why consult about fitting charging posts, fit them, and prosecute any vandals or protesters.

Public consultation on yellow lines, or any form of on-street parking restriction, is part of a statutory process that MUST be followed. If a Council has just painted yellow lines without following that 21 day minimum consultation process, which includes advertising parking proposals in the local paper, then the yellow lines would be classed as illegal road markings and could be ignored (and safely challenged at the Traffic Penalty Tribunal)

For my sins this stuff was my bread and butter at the Council as I was in charge of implementing new parking restrictions on-street and dealing with the whole legal process. @mechanicalhorsetrough Mine was a Tory Council btw

 

[Blogg]

Ah....

Rise of EVs risks wave of ‘catastrophic’ shipping fires

Thousands of vehicles, including Bentleys and Porsches, sank in the Atlantic in March

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[anglo]

Of course it was just bad wording…..or it could be that you’ve just been found out and you don’t have the integrity to admit it.

And no, your interpretation of the grid statistics is not correct. It’s based on fundamental ignorance of the market structure. I’ve previously posted links to articles and papers by Lane Clarke Peacock which destroy your argument and clearly demonstrate that the UK currently switches off renewables when they could generate because they cannot sell in to the Capacity Market.

There’s a wealth of information on their website; they provide much of the data and analysis on which investment decisions are made and government policy is set. Their latest market analysis indicates that, at current investment trends, the UK will have a 24/7/365 surplus of renewables at current rates of investment by 2030.

Read beyond the Express; you might learn something.

Would that be this company, because Lane Clarke Peacock doesn't seem to exist.
Maybe you spell the name wrong.

Lane Clark & Peacock (or LCP) is a firm of financial, actuarial and business consultants, specialising in the areas of pensions, investment, insurance and business analytics.[1] The LCP group has over 600 staff and 100 partners and principals across offices in London and Winchester in the UK, Ireland, and The Netherlands in Europe.[2]


Give the link to "Lane Clarke Peacock", and quote the paragraph that states,

"the UK currently switches off renewables when they could generate because they cannot sell in to the Capacity Market."
And destroy my argument

Stop making stuff up,
"There’s a wealth of information on their website; they provide much of the data and analysis on which investment decisions are made and government policy is set".

Please explain the graph below, just how much do you understand

Screenshot shot of National grid status 11/05/2022 08:33.53 hrs
Taken from,

G. B. National Grid status

www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

Notice that I give links where applicable

 

[exbleep]

The EU have just agreed to reduce the time when combustion engines will no longer be allowed to be sold. From 2040 down to 2035.

 

[exbleep]

@anglo Did you really mean a funny?
If so, why is it funny?

 

[anglo]

@anglo Did you really mean a funny?
If so, why is it funny?

No, I've changed it,

 

[PepperSeaDog]

@anglo Did you really mean a funny?
If so, why is it funny?

It is humorously optimistic and unrealistic.
Much like most of what the EU spout really

 

[exbleep]

It is humorously optimistic and unrealistic.
Much like most of what the EU spout really

But, of course, the UK to do it by 2030 is realistic? Much like most of what the UK spouts really?

 

[harrythebastard]

Well I for one think that it is funny.
Less than 13 years to rewire the whole of continental Europe should be doable.
The smart-meter at Chez Moi trips out with the kettle, oven and microwave on.
And that is on the top rated tariff in rural paysan land.
I look forward to it how the green lobby will overcome the laws of physics and electrical transmission.

 

[PepperSeaDog]

But, of course, the UK to do it by 2030 is realistic? Much like most of what the UK spouts really?

Not at all, it won't happen here either. The EU is living in fairy land as usual to bring the date forward instead of back.

 

[stanley_bomb_squad]

We'll end up with a huge grey import business whereby ICE cars are built in UK/EU factories shipped to the sane(er) areas of the world where they'll be driven onto another ship bringing them back. So like all 'green' solutions it'll end up producing more pollution than it ever solves - but they dont like to look at the manufacturing tail just the end result.

 

[CaptainRidiculous]

We'll end up with a huge grey import business whereby ICE cars are built in UK/EU factories shipped to the sane(er) areas of the world where they'll be driven onto another ship bringing them back. So like all 'green' solutions it'll end up producing more pollution than it ever solves - but they dont like to look at the manufacturing tail just the end result.

and, of course, all that greenhouse gas which motor cars generate is stopped at the borders, right?
So while UK is doings its bit, the millions of ill-maintained shyteboxes in the third world/'developing nations' have no effect on global warming.

 

[bobthebuilder]

Would that be this company, because Lane Clarke Peacock doesn't seem to exist.
Maybe you spell the name wrong.

Lane Clark & Peacock (or LCP) is a firm of financial, actuarial and business consultants, specialising in the areas of pensions, investment, insurance and business analytics.[1] The LCP group has over 600 staff and 100 partners and principals across offices in London and Winchester in the UK, Ireland, and The Netherlands in Europe.[2]


Give the link to "Lane Clarke Peacock", and quote the paragraph that states,

"the UK currently switches off renewables when they could generate because they cannot sell in to the Capacity Market."
And destroy my argument

Stop making stuff up,
"There’s a wealth of information on their website; they provide much of the data and analysis on which investment decisions are made and government policy is set".

Please explain the graph below, just how much do you understand

View attachment 662142
Screenshot shot of National grid status 11/05/2022 08:33.53 hrs
Taken from,

G. B. National Grid status

www.gridwatch.templar.co.uk

Notice that I give links where applicable

Yes I did spell Clark incorrectly and you have found the right firm. They’re business analytics people are the one of (probably the) leading UK energy markets analysts. They do consultancy work on energy planning to just about everyone involved in the UK energy market; government, National Grid, the electricity companies, investors and planners. Delve into the Energy pages and blogs and you’ll find any number of reports and analysis that will cure your basic ignorance.

I’m not going to engage with you on the grid watch graph. The starting point of your analysis is and always has been fundamentally flawed. You work from the idea that the grid buys all available wind energy because it is cheap. It doesn’t. It only buys it if it has demand that exceeds its forward contracted suppliers.

Bottom line; you cannot draw any conclusions from the graph you have posted.

Edited to add: anyone who has ever been involved professionally with energy investment in the UK knows of LCP.

 

[Blogg]

Not at all, it won't happen here either. The EU is living in fairy land as usual to bring the date forward instead of back.

Part of that fairy land is EU7 emissions standards.

So onerous that makers pointed out something.

Why the EU7 regulations could mean bigger engines

Frank-Steffen Walliser explains why EU regs mean all-new big-capacity engine for the 911 by 2026

www.carmagazine.co.uk

 

[stanley_bomb_squad]

and, of course, all that greenhouse gas which motor cars generate is stopped at the borders, right?
So while UK is doings its bit, the millions of ill-maintained shyteboxes in the third world/'developing nations' have no effect on global warming.

At least the 'greenhouse gas' bit doesn't matter as its not happening - pollution a different matter.