What would make you buy an electric car?

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
I can see some enterprising soul, buying an old truck, installing a big diesel gen set, and fitting a few charger units but driving along and offering to charge for a decent fee
you could rake in

Meanwhile in the UK BP charger points are not being installed as promised, and also failing to control the charging in order to utilize cheaper rates ie solar panels or off peak
many many complaints
 

Chef

LE
Even in the 70's petrol shortages the queues weren't that long.

Does rather into perspective the Lands End to John O'Groats jaunt posted a while back and explains why it took months of planning.

Presumably one would get the same result on popular holiday routes in season.
 
Published by: Angus Mackenzie, "WHEELS", whichcar.com.au, on 30 Jul 2021.

First Drive: 2022 Volvo XC40 Recharge Pure Electric.

One of the most powerful Volvos in the Swedish brand's 94-year history happens to be its first all-electric model.


1627813518290.png


Things we like . . .
+ Familiar styling inside and out
+ Maintains same storage space while adding a 'frunk'
+ More premium-feeling than, and nearly as quick, as the Model 3

Not so much . . .
x Heavier than most comparable EVs
x One-pedal mode a bit tiresome
x Won't drive as far as the equivalent Model 3

It’s one of the most powerful Volvos in history, packing an attention-getting 300kW and 660Nm. Not surprisingly, it’s also one of the quickest; able, says Volvo, to zip from a standing start to 100km/h in 4.9 seconds. But that’s not what makes the XC40 Recharge Pure Electric a significant Volvo. What makes it significant is that it’s Volvo’s first electric-powered production car . . .

. . . . The XC40 Recharge Pure Electric is powered by a pair of 150kW e-motors, one mounted at the front axle, the other at the rear. The motors are fed by a 78kWh lithium-ion battery pack that delivers a range of 418km on the European WTLP test cycle and 335km under the more highway-oriented US EPA test regime. The battery can be recharged to 80 per cent capacity in 40 minutes using a 150kW DC fast charger.

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The Recharge Pure Electric is built on the CMA vehicle architecture that underpins the regular internal combustion engine (ICE) XC40, modified to package the e-motors and associated hardware, and the battery pack. That makes the Recharge Pure Electric heavier than a car built on a bespoke EV platform – at 2187kg it weighs 38kg more than the larger, roomier, dual-motor Volkswagen ID.4 GTX, for example – but Volvo says using the CMA architecture shortened the development time (insiders claim the decision to build the Pure Electric was only taken in early 2017) and also meant the car could be built in existing factories in Europe and China.

Electrifying the XC40 made sense from a marketing perspective, too. Globally, the compact SUV market is big and still growing. The regular XC40, distinctively designed, well packaged and well equipped, is already an appealing player in the segment.

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In Australia the XC40 Recharge Pure Electric will be available in one specification only and priced from $76,990 before on-road costs. Compared with the regular XC40, visual differences are minimal, the blanked grille, the charge-point cover on the left rear quarter panel, and the design of the 20-inch alloy wheels the key giveaways this Volvo is the first without pistons and a crankshaft.

Inside, it’s all familiar XC40 hardware. As befits that hefty price tag – the Recharge Pure Electric costs $12,000 more than the plug-in hybrid XC40 – standard equipment includes a 12.3-inch digital instrument panel with configurable EV-specific displays, panoramic sunroof, heated front power seats, and inductive charging for your smartphone. Also standard is the full suite of Volvo safety features, including lane-keep assist, blind-spot monitoring with cross-traffic alert, and rear collision alert.

You also get Volvo’s new Google Android-powered infotainment system, which comes with Google Maps, Google Assistant, and Google Play apps, among others, all controlled via the 9.0-inch central touch screen. The system can handle over-the-air updates, allowing upgrades for everything from apps to vehicle software to be downloaded while the car is parked.

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Despite the battery pack under the floor, interior room is the same as that of the regular XC40, and Volvo claims the rear load space area is identical. With no bulky internal combustion engine up front, there’s also a small frunk, roomy enough for a soft bag and some charging cables, under the bonnet.

Slide behind the wheel and you’ll search long and hard for a start-stop button. There isn’t one; once the Recharge Pure Electric is unlocked you simply sit in the seat, buckle up, tug at the stubby shifter, and drive off.

On the road it feels every bit as quick as Volvo claims, whooshing past slower traffic in one effortless, silent surge of acceleration, and leaping out of tight corners on a tidal wave of torque and all-wheel-drive traction.

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With its punchy acceleration and taut ride, particularly on the 20-inch low profile Pirelli P Zero Elect tyres, the XC40 Recharge Pure Electric feels like a high-riding hot hatch. But only to a point: There’s not a lot of feedback from the steering, which is best in the firmer of its two selectable modes to counter the tendency of the tyres to follow contours in the road surface, and the brake pedal gets a little wooden after a stint of hard driving.

There are only two drive modes – Normal, in which the car coasts when you lift off, and One Pedal, which does exactly as it says, using regenerative braking to slow the XC40 dramatically the instant you release pressure on the accelerator pedal.

One Pedal mode can be useful in heavy traffic around town, but in Normal mode, all braking up to 0.3g is done via regenerative braking anyway, which sends energy back to the battery the same way. More importantly, though, Normal mode gives the electric XC40 a smoother, more free-flowing character that makes it less tiring to drive (you don’t have to constantly keep pressure on the accelerator just to keep the car moving) and potentially more efficient (converting kinetic energy into energy stored in the battery invariably means some energy is lost). A little more initial bite through the brake pedal would be welcome, but the blending between regenerative and mechanical braking is smoothly done.

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The Volvo XC40 Recharge Pure Electric marks the beginning of a radical transformation that will see the iconic Swedish brand selling nothing but electric vehicles by 2030, all built using dedicated electric vehicle architectures designed by Volvo and powered by e-motors and batteries engineered in-house. Volvo CEO Håkan Samuelsson admits the company has taken its time getting an electric vehicle into production. And therein lies the electric XC40’s biggest problem – the Tesla factor.

Launched almost a decade after Tesla’s first volume-selling electric vehicle, the Model S, the Recharge Pure Electric is nonetheless a solid first step on Volvo’s journey towards total electrification. The electric XC40’s fit and finish, inside and out, is far more premium than that of the similarly sized, similarly priced dual-motor Tesla Model 3 Long Range AWD. And though it is speed limited to 180km/h, the Volvo is only half a second slower to 100km/h than the 343kg-lighter American car.

But the official WLTP and EPA range numbers in Europe and the US suggest the Tesla could take you 35 to 70 per cent further than the Volvo on a single charge. And that’s a benchmark consumers will almost certainly factor into their purchase decision when looking at the XC40 Recharge Pure Electric.

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This gives a good idea of what the hospitals put in place to preserve power supplies

View attachment 592928

Plus normal grid power supplies
Epic fail. They’re installing a combined heat and power station. It’s got nothing to do with “preserving supplies” (a term with no engineering meaning):it IS the supply. It takes them off grid or more likely makes them a Capacity Market supplier.

A CHP plant can never be some sort of standby capacity that works when the grid fails; the clue is in the H. It’s designed to supply the HVAC needs of the hospital and that can’t be switched in and out. CHP is BASE LOAD generation.

So why would a hospital install CHP? Well, partly because it will save money because it’s HVAC load is now a bi-product of its power, but mostly because it will create a net revenue stream by selling excess power into the grid. And how does it do that?

Well, the answer to that goes some (all the?) way to exposing the simple ignorance of your posts about wind power. For some time now, I’ve been chuckling as you tell me to stop digging, all the time digging a ******* manhoosive elephant trap for you.

The UK wholesale marketplace is divided into three separate markets. The Capacity Market, the Balancing Market and the Energy Market. The Capacity Market is where buyers buy long term supplies and guaranteed short term supplies. So the grid base load is all contracted there, as are flexible supplies like gas that can react to short term surges and drops in demand. The Balancing Market is where the grid buys and sells short term supplies to balance the grid. The Energy Market is everything else.

Now go away an research which markets wind can sell in to. You’ll find that wind power contracted in the CFD market cannot sell into either the Capacity Market or the Balancing Market. So, when demand is low in summer and met by the Capacity Market, wind turbines aren’t generating because the can’t sell their output.

You owe me an apology.
 
Don't know anything about them, Josh, just giving a bloke some idea what the hospitals install,
to keep the power on during general power failures
Now there’s a surprise.

Having worked on the M&E installations of three major hospitals here’s a clue.

They have a base load supply. It might be grid or it might be their own (CHP etc). I can think of at least four hospitals in the UK which have been self-generating for over a decade. Many more will follow because the Capacity Market is a no-brainer.

They all have standby generating capacity to power essential loads. It won’t carry the entire load. That’s subject to risk assessment; in the UK, where grid outages are infrequent, it would probably only carry a small percentage of the connected load and the main switchboard will shed loads.

Some facilities will have separate, dedicated standby power,
which may even back up the standby capacity. You’d need to delve into the ownership issues within a hospital to understand this; it’s quite possible for the owning trust shed loads of organisations outside their ownership who then install their own standby.

Buildings will have UPS, usually to ensure no break power supplies. This will be a mix of large building UPS for critical installations like ICUs, which will have more than no-break supplies. But local UPS and plug in units will be used where it’s only about no-break. The local UPS will often be mechanically coupled. In addition, much of the lighting will be maintained, probably well beyond what is required by fire regulations.

It isn’t complicated. You’ve been working in the industry for years.
 

Blogg

LE
Epic fail. They’re installing a combined heat and power station. It’s got nothing to do with “preserving supplies” (a term with no engineering meaning):it IS the supply. It takes them off grid or more likely makes them a Capacity Market supplier.

A CHP plant can never be some sort of standby capacity that works when the grid fails; the clue is in the H. It’s designed to supply the HVAC needs of the hospital and that can’t be switched in and out. CHP is BASE LOAD generation.

So why would a hospital install CHP? Well, partly because it will save money because it’s HVAC load is now a bi-product of its power, but mostly because it will create a net revenue stream by selling excess power into the grid. And how does it do that?

Well, the answer to that goes some (all the?) way to exposing the simple ignorance of your posts about wind power. For some time now, I’ve been chuckling as you tell me to stop digging, all the time digging a ******* manhoosive elephant trap for you.

The UK wholesale marketplace is divided into three separate markets. The Capacity Market, the Balancing Market and the Energy Market. The Capacity Market is where buyers buy long term supplies and guaranteed short term supplies. So the grid base load is all contracted there, as are flexible supplies like gas that can react to short term surges and drops in demand. The Balancing Market is where the grid buys and sells short term supplies to balance the grid. The Energy Market is everything else.

Now go away an research which markets wind can sell in to. You’ll find that wind power contracted in the CFD market cannot sell into either the Capacity Market or the Balancing Market. So, when demand is low in summer and met by the Capacity Market, wind turbines aren’t generating because the can’t sell their output.

You owe me an apology.
Brother in Law used to work in power generation but now happily semi retired and doing a few days per month for a consulting outfit.

Alludes to there being a world of sharp practice by money grubbers being kept under wraps around this

 
Published by: Angus Mackenzie, "WHEELS", whichcar.com.au, on 30 Jul 2021.

First Drive: 2022 Volvo XC40 Recharge Pure Electric.

One of the most powerful Volvos in the Swedish brand's 94-year history happens to be its first all-electric model.


View attachment 593079

Things we like . . .
+ Familiar styling inside and out
+ Maintains same storage space while adding a 'frunk'
+ More premium-feeling than, and nearly as quick, as the Model 3

Not so much . . .
x Heavier than most comparable EVs
x One-pedal mode a bit tiresome
x Won't drive as far as the equivalent Model 3

It’s one of the most powerful Volvos in history, packing an attention-getting 300kW and 660Nm. Not surprisingly, it’s also one of the quickest; able, says Volvo, to zip from a standing start to 100km/h in 4.9 seconds. But that’s not what makes the XC40 Recharge Pure Electric a significant Volvo. What makes it significant is that it’s Volvo’s first electric-powered production car . . .



Package that like this
10.jpg

and I might buy one.
 
Brother in Law used to work in power generation but now happily semi retired and doing a few days per month for a consulting outfit.

Alludes to there being a world of sharp practice by money grubbers being kept under wraps around this

Yes. There’s a whole load of noise about arbitrage trades in the electricity market too. Arbitrage being the simultaneous purchase and sale of an asset in different markets to make a profit on the difference between prices in the market.

I’m not sure where I stand I this. On the one hand, liquidity in the market has to be a good thing. On the other speculation has to be a bad thing. Whatever, it’s pretty dynamic.
 
Last edited:

Blogg

LE
Yes. There’s a whole load of noise about making noise through arbitrage trades in the electricity market. Arbitrage being the simultaneous purchase and sale of an asset in different markets to make a profit on the difference between prices in the market.

I’m not sure where I stand I this. On the one hand, liquidity in the market has to be a good thing. On the other speculation has to be a bad thing. Whatever, it’s pretty dynamic.

What he was talking about seemed to be people (being Aggregators and Agents acting for others with limited generation capacity) having been paid richly for contracts to provide STOR capacity which was of doubtful availability within the required time window and if things got really bad might turn out to have existed only as a theoretical concept
 
My uncles electric car (BMW I3) just had a drive error coming up on the dash - he got quoted 4K to get it fixed (he just re-charged it and the fault went away). So he sold it and went back to a petrol car (Honda). He's still got a BMW I8 though which is a hybrid. One things for sure - these electric cars cost a fortune to repair.
 
What he was talking about seemed to be people (being Aggregators and Agents acting for others with limited generation capacity) having been paid richly for contracts to provide STOR capacity which was of doubtful availability within the required time window and if things got really bad might turn out to have existed only as a theoretical concept
I get that. My point was more general, about the way the 2019 market place is attracting new money from investors who would never have gone near the old market place.

On the specifics of STOR, the payment mechanism works in two parts. There’s an availability fee, for providing the standby service and a utilisation fee when it’s actually called on. If when called on, the supplier fails to supply, then there’s a penalty mechanism which erodes the availability fee. A company that contracts to provide and then doesn’t isn’t going to last long.
 

anglo

LE
This gives a good idea of what the hospitals put in place to preserve power supplies

View attachment 592928

Plus normal grid power supplies
A little more information of the set-up at Derriford hospital.
The unit consists of a gas turbine driving a generator, the heat from the exhaust,
being used to supply heating and hot water.
The generator supplies 60% of the hospital's electrical needs,
the generator is synchronized with the incoming grid electrical supply to supply
the hospitals total amount,
If the grid power fails, the gas turbine run generator with supply essential services,
of the hospital, removing the need to have a standby generator
See diagram below

3-s2.0-B9781845697952500155-f15-05-9781845697952.jpg


From trustees yearly reports 2014 and 2017/18

Screenshot 2021-08-02 at 09-08-43 Strategy 2013 - PHNT_Annual_Report_2013-14_web-1 pdf.png
Screenshot 2021-08-02 at 08-49-49 Plymouth_Hospitals_NHS_Trust_Annual_Report_and_Accounts_2017...png
 

RTU'd

LE
If they were cheap, could drive more than 300 miles on 1 charge, fast 1 hr charging & discounted servicing.
That said for a half decent on these days its more like £30k plus.
 
If they were cheap, could drive more than 300 miles on 1 charge, fast 1 hr charging & discounted servicing.
That said for a half decent on these days its more like £30k plus.
I'm not too bothered about the range now, as they're getting better and better - but my parents are about 290 miles away, so if necessary I need to be able to get there in a reasonable amount of time. I would probably want a break for an hour or so if I were driving that far, and that should be enough to top me up and get there.

I am, however, getting more intrigued as to whether electric cars will be an automobile 'betamax' (or Minidisc, depending on age) affair, and vanish with a better / different technology emerging. As a few on here have mentioned, Hydrogen may take over.

I still like the idea of an established network of car hire clubs for those (lots of the population) who don't use their cars too much - I know that mine occasionally (once/week?) gets used on a weekday evening, and then gets used most weekends. If I could reliably hire a car locally (within 1-2 streets) for X hours at a time, that's what I'd do.
 
I believe my current home supply is 40 amp, I asked SSE (because they run the power infrastructure) what was needed to uprate to 100amp and their response was change the fuse to 100amp which they would do for £65.33.
I'm surprised SSE said they would change the main fuse as that is UK Power network's domain they are also ripping you off.

I had my fuse uprated from 60 amp to 100amp as we have a hot tub and are planning on extending the property at some point. UK Power Networks charged us £34.68 (2 x £17.34) as they swapped out the fuse and changed the tails.
 

Tyk

LE
I don't think that electric drive will be a betamax or minidisk, but a battery as the only power source may well be.

Charging, infrastructure and the sheer weight of the vehicles with massive battery packs are all significant issues which go away when there's a sensible alternative to batteries for fuelling.

Electric drive has many well proven great advantages over internal combustion which will only improve, we just need a better fuelling solution.
 
I'm surprised SSE said they would change the main fuse as that is UK Power network's domain they are also ripping you off.

I had my fuse uprated from 60 amp to 100amp as we have a hot tub and are planning on extending the property at some point. UK Power Networks charged us £34.68 (2 x £17.34) as they swapped out the fuse and changed the tails.
SSE are our Distribution Network Operator (Fareham), had paperwork to fill in and they sent us a quote back which mentioned that the power tails would also need changing but they didn't offer that service.
 
SSE are our Distribution Network Operator (Fareham), had paperwork to fill in and they sent us a quote back which mentioned that the power tails would also need changing but they didn't offer that service.
Got you! The electrician who installed the Hot tub supply also replaced the fuse board and the tails into it. The UK power Networks guy who replaced the fuse also replaced the tails from the cut out box to the meter with double screw ones as they are "safer" even though they weren't their responsibility. I wasn't arguing with him as it only cost £34.68.
 

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