What would make you buy an electric car?

Because you are otherwise limited to limited capacity chargers which charge a hell of a lot slower.
No you aren’t. As long as I’m not running everything else at the same time I can charge at 40 Amps. About 75km an hour. I have a very basic 100 amp supply. No issues.

I don’t, I charge at 20 amps in the summer but easily done overnight.
 
What this seems to be saying is that despite 2030 being the cut-off for selling ICE vehicles, the government is to restrict the sale before that date. Which seems to be contradictory to the rules of fair trade. Telling manufacturers that in (for example) 2025 you must sell 10% electric vehicles, and in 2026 it must be 20% etc, then this means that for those people that cannot find an electric (or Hydrogen etc) vehicle that suits their needs (and there are many who need a vehicle that isn't yet available as an electric vehicle are going to have to buy an older, less clean ICE vehicle just because the manufacturer hasn't reached that percentage target.

If Ford, for example, don't sell the 10%, will they be told to close down the dealerships? What if they sell 1 million vehicles in the first 2 months of a given year, and only 100 of them are electric, will they be told "you can't sell any more ICE vehicles until you meet the 10% electric target"? What if in the first 10 months they meet the 10% target, but in the last 2 months they only manage to sell ICEs? Will they be penalised because the customer is buying what they want or need?
If I may ask bone question, how many car manufacturers are there ? Jeep and Fiat I think are tied together, who owns Volvo, what does the VAG group consist of ? If it comes down to quotas of EV versus ICE vehicles sold it could get a bit complicated.
In answer to the OP, I won't buy an EV, I have just bought a 17 plate Hilux and I don't anticipate replacing it.
In agriculture, I think there will be big developments in the use of autonomous robots for plant health applications, (horticulture is way ahead in this, but broadacre crops present different challenges). Crop establishment and harvesting/movement to store will be diesel powered for a while yet.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
No you aren’t. As long as I’m not running everything else at the same time I can charge at 40 Amps. About 75km an hour. I have a very basic 100 amp supply. No issues.

I don’t, I charge at 20 amps in the summer but easily done overnight.
you are lucky , lots of properties around here only have a 60A or even a 40A supply
and if you are a two car family ( or five like the chods next door) you are going to need a 3 phase supply if you wish to shower and cook and charge both cars
I think it likely that manufacturers of the large powerful high end cars will insist on a 22Kw charger, for which 3 phase will be needed
but for normal charging single phase is ok
providing you only have one car
a couple down the road have two electric cars, a mini and a tesla, only one can be charged at any time
 

Longlenny

War Hero
Book Reviewer
I had my first test drive inan all electric caron Saturday, it was a Mercedes EQC 400. beautifully built but heavy at 2.7 tons. First impressions were favourable but on looking closer, not much headroom inside, my hair was rubbing on the headlining all the time. 21 inch wheels to help it ride better over the bumps. It had 400 BHP available so it went like a stabbed rat.The most important detail to me though was the short range of the car, around 250 miles, depending on what extras you were using, aircon in summer or the heater and heated seats in winter, that would reduce the range by about 40 miles. In this car I would be unable to drive from say the south coast to Yorkshire in one hit and bear in mind this thing costs the thick end of 75k.
 
Published by: Joe Holding, AUTOCAR magazine, on 21 July 2021.

Tesla Supercharger network to be opened to rival EVs.

Other electric cars will soon be able to use Tesla's network of chargers, says CEO Elon Musk.

Electric cars other than those made by Tesla will be able to use the firm's Supercharger network from later this year, CEO Elon Musk has said.


The network - which consists of 2500 stations with 25,000 charging points worldwide, including more than 600 across the UK and Ireland - is currently exclusive to Tesla drivers.

Opening these up to all brands would represent a significant boost for EV drivers. Zap-Map estimates that only 1137 of the near-25,000 charging devices in the UK are capable of ‘ultra-rapid’ rates of 100kW or more.

“We created our own connector, as there was no standard back then and Tesla was only maker of long-range electric cars,” Musk wrote on Twitter. “It’s one fairly slim connector for both low and high-power charging. That said, we’re making our Supercharger network open to other EVs later this year.”

Asked if the network would be open to all EVs in specific territories, Musk replied: “Over time, all countries.”

While Musk has a habit of making impromptu announcements on Twitter, his tweets are often taken with a pinch of salt. In 2019, he and Tesla were each forced to pay a $20 million fine by the US Securities and Exchange Commission after he falsely claimed that he had “funding secured” to take the company private, damaging investors.

The deal with the SEC compelled him to step down as Tesla chairman for at least three years and his tweets regarding the company now have to be pre-approved – although the regulator believes the latter term has been broken at least twice, according to documents recently seen by the Wall Street Journal.


In any case, Musk’s latest claims don’t go into detail about the difficulties of opening up the Supercharger network to all electric cars. In the UK, Superchargers offer both Type 2 (for the Model S and Model X) and CCS connectors (for the Model 3), but charging points in the US would need an adapter.

The move could also prove unpopular with Tesla owners, who view the exclusive Supercharger network as a key benefit of buying one of the American manufacturer's cars.

There’s also the issue of pricing: certain Teslas can use the Supercharger network for free, while others are charged a rate of 28p per kWh after exhausting an annual allowance of 400kWh.

It’s not clear if non-Tesla drivers would be charged more or if they would be entitled to the same charging speeds of up to 250kW that equate to 1000 miles of range per hour on some models.

1626906211425.png


https://www.autocar.co.uk/.../tesla-supercharger-network...
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
I had my first test drive inan all electric caron Saturday, it was a Mercedes EQC 400. beautifully built but heavy at 2.7 tons. First impressions were favourable but on looking closer, not much headroom inside, my hair was rubbing on the headlining all the time. 21 inch wheels to help it ride better over the bumps. It had 400 BHP available so it went like a stabbed rat.The most important detail to me though was the short range of the car, around 250 miles, depending on what extras you were using, aircon in summer or the heater and heated seats in winter, that would reduce the range by about 40 miles. In this car I would be unable to drive from say the south coast to Yorkshire in one hit and bear in mind this thing costs the thick end of 75k.
I have just driven over the last few days, early doors Cheltenham to Kings Lynn, lots of running about, Kings Lynn to Sutton Bridge
up early and back home
av MPG 61
average speed 60
600 miles on a tank, and a 1.4 diesel engine
I didnt see any charging points in Sutton Bridge, and only a few in Kings Lynn , plus I cannot afford to waste 30K on a vehicle that spends most of its life parked
 
I have just driven over the last few days, early doors Cheltenham to Kings Lynn, lots of running about, Kings Lynn to Sutton Bridge
up early and back home
av MPG 61
average speed 60
600 miles on a tank, and a 1.4 diesel engine
I didnt see any charging points in Sutton Bridge, and only a few in Kings Lynn , plus I cannot afford to waste 30K on a vehicle that spends most of its life parked
So if you had a car with a 300 + mile range, started with a full charge and charged up overnight you’d be fine. Even with a 250 mile range, you’d only need a half hour top up. What’s so valuable about your time that means you can’t stop for half an hour on a 3 1/2 hour drive to top up?

BTW there are several chargers in Sutton Bridge.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
So if you had a car with a 300 + mile range, started with a full charge and charged up overnight you’d be fine. Even with a 250 mile range, you’d only need a half hour top up. What’s so valuable about your time that means you can’t stop for half an hour on a 3 1/2 hour drive to top up?

BTW there are several chargers in Sutton Bridge.
Because a friend has an electric car with an amassing range, only it doesn't
Drive it hard and the range drops
And there were no chargers outside or near the bar we stayed at
I don't use a car very much, its mainly fir carrying tools, otherwise I walk or cycle, but I often need to travel a considerable distance and as my friend found these so called half hour charges do not top it up enough
Also I can take my focus to a local garage fir repair, electric cars main dealer only
Plus they are far too heavy
And coat too much, its a rich man's game
Very few of my friends can afford to spend more than 6k on a car
But then most of us own our houses and are mortgage free
 
you are lucky , lots of properties around here only have a 60A or even a 40A supply
and if you are a two car family ( or five like the chods next door) you are going to need a 3 phase supply if you wish to shower and cook and charge both cars
I think it likely that manufacturers of the large powerful high end cars will insist on a 22Kw charger, for which 3 phase will be needed
but for normal charging single phase is ok
providing you only have one car
a couple down the road have two electric cars, a mini and a tesla, only one can be charged at any time
Wow, I’m surprised 100 amp supply here is minimal with new and a lot of places upgrading to 200 amp. The Tesla wall charger is up to 11.5 kw and is quoted at 44 miles per hour. A 40 amp supply would be tricky but I bet you would be ok at 60a in the uk (sorry I don’t know where you are). You can set the car to take what you want and a 250 - 300km overnight charge set at 18 amps is easy with a decent sleep. I set mine to start at 11pm cheap rate.
 

964ST

War Hero
Electric cars have potential but the technology and infrastructure to cheaply keep the vehicle maintained and useable is NOT in place?

The cars are expensive to buy, they are expensive to produce, they have a very serious threat to Rescue Services if you have an accident. On top of that you will be *locked” into a leasing contract either for the car or the battery pack which is difficult to get out off/or deny ( if you have an electric (not hybrid) car privately owned check the residual worth after at most 10 years when you need new batteries!)).
 

Longlenny

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Electric cars have potential but the technology and infrastructure to cheaply keep the vehicle maintained and useable is NOT in place?

The cars are expensive to buy, they are expensive to produce, they have a very serious threat to Rescue Services if you have an accident. On top of that you will be *locked” into a leasing contract either for the car or the battery pack which is difficult to get out off/or deny ( if you have an electric (not hybrid) car privately owned check the residual worth after at most 10 years when you need new batteries!)).
I asked the salesman about this. The battery is not leased but purchased, the Merc guarantee is for eight years, he claims that the battery performance only drops off very marginally but when i think of my phone, tablet but most of all my power tools then the drop off in performance is quite marked. I tend to buy good quality power tools and I am using them daily on heavy work but about a thousand charges are all I am able to achieve and the more you charge them the less charge they hold. I wouldn't spend 75k on that Merc, it is too early in the technology, when they get a range of around 600 miles then they might be viable. Edit to add, my house has three phase so charging would be less of a problem for me.
 

964ST

War Hero
I asked the salesman about this. The battery is not leased but purchased, the Merc guarantee is for eight years, he claims that the battery performance only drops off very marginally but when i think of my phone, tablet but most of all my power tools then the drop off in performance is quite marked. I tend to buy good quality power tools and I am using them daily on heavy work but about a thousand charges are all I am able to achieve and the more you charge them the less charge they hold. I wouldn't spend 75k on that Merc, it is too early in the technology, when they get a range of around 600 miles then they might be viable. Edit to add, my house has three phase so charging would be less of a problem for me.
Good luck and I wish to state that I am not Anti-electric, but I suspect you are not planning on keeping the Merc for 8 years? Salesmen are liars and untrustworthy at best (there is no difference between a Merc salesman and a Dacia Salesman except the level of arrogance and nice clothing).
 
Electric cars have potential but the technology and infrastructure to cheaply keep the vehicle maintained and useable is NOT in place?

The cars are expensive to buy, they are expensive to produce, they have a very serious threat to Rescue Services if you have an accident. On top of that you will be *locked” into a leasing contract either for the car or the battery pack which is difficult to get out off/or deny ( if you have an electric (not hybrid) car privately owned check the residual worth after at most 10 years when you need new batteries!)).
"On top of that you will be *locked” into a leasing contract either for the car or the battery pack which is difficult to get out off/or deny" . . .

At the beginning, when the first electric vehicles were being introduce, there was some talk of the battery pack being leased/hired. To my knowledge such arrangements have long-since been abandoned! The latest electric vehicles are offered for sale, as a complete package, which is ALL your responsibility ;) !!


EDIT: As already mentioned by @Longlenny , at least with regard to, specifically about, Mercedes.
 
Last edited:

Longlenny

War Hero
Book Reviewer
Good luck and I wish to state that I am not Anti-electric, but I suspect you are not planning on keeping the Merc for 8 years? Salesmen are liars and untrustworthy at best (there is no difference between a Merc salesman and a Dacia Salesman except the level of arrogance and nice clothing).
I totally agree with that and as I said it is too early In the technology to buy one of these things. As my next car will probably be my last I might just buy a diesel to see me out. My current merc is fourteen years old, has only done 114k miles and nothing has fallen off or broken.
 

Chef

LE
Wow, I’m surprised 100 amp supply here is minimal with new and a lot of places upgrading to 200 amp. The Tesla wall charger is up to 11.5 kw and is quoted at 44 miles per hour. Edited for brevity.
It still comes down to the extra time for a long journey and the uncertainty of a replen at the other end.

At a push I could get from my location to Aberystwyth and back on a single tank. It would take time and careful driving but could be done.

As it stands I can hoof up there and replen from any petrol station. Even with queues 15 minutes to get back to maximum range.

The story for EVs is, currently, not so good. There aren't many chargers in Aberystwyth and if they're all in use or possibly U/S as is the case for one station near Morrisons. It's then a bit of a schlep to the next one. With long waits if they're already in use and how long to get 200+ miles range?

The EV story seems to be one of 'this is going to happen' any doubts or questions are covered in a flurry of environmental flim flam and 'It'll be fine'.

I've no doubt the days of fossil fuelled vehicles are numbered but I'll lay odds that the last people to give them up will be the great and the good, politicians and green delegates will still be flying to conferences in nice locations being chauffeured to and fro in petrol limos with A/C long after we're cutting about on bicycles and expensive EVs.
 

Fr SpodoKomodo

Old-Salt
No you aren’t. As long as I’m not running everything else at the same time I can charge at 40 Amps. About 75km an hour. I have a very basic 100 amp supply. No issues.

I don’t, I charge at 20 amps in the summer but easily done overnight.

Yes you are, I don't think you understand where I'm coming from.

7KW is the most you can charge with at home with a single phase supply, which is empty-full in about 8 hours with the average modern battery and on board AC-DC rectifier.

22KW is what you could achieve at home by upgrading to a 3 phase supply, which would be much quicker, but crucially, means a household with two electric cars, which will eventually be the norm, could charge both overnight in 5-6 hours.

 

anglo

LE
It still comes down to the extra time for a long journey and the uncertainty of a replen at the other end.

At a push I could get from my location to Aberystwyth and back on a single tank. It would take time and careful driving but could be done.

As it stands I can hoof up there and replen from any petrol station. Even with queues 15 minutes to get back to maximum range.

The story for EVs is, currently, not so good. There aren't many chargers in Aberystwyth and if they're all in use or possibly U/S as is the case for one station near Morrisons. It's then a bit of a schlep to the next one. With long waits if they're already in use and how long to get 200+ miles range?

The EV story seems to be one of 'this is going to happen' any doubts or questions are covered in a flurry of environmental flim flam and 'It'll be fine'.

I've no doubt the days of fossil fuelled vehicles are numbered but I'll lay odds that the last people to give them up will be the great and the good, politicians and green delegates will still be flying to conferences in nice locations being chauffeured to and fro in petrol limos with A/C long after we're cutting about on bicycles and expensive EVs.
The EV story seems to be one of 'this is going to happen' any doubts or questions are covered in a flurry of environmental flim flam and 'It'll be fine'.

I agree, I've said that many times on this thread
For instance,
The Smart grid will look after things, no need for more capacity,
When is that going to happen, I ask,
then it's 'It'll be fine'.
The Smart grid should have been up and running at the start of
the so-called "going green", and then added to as the change-over takes place.
Now there are hundreds of chargers that will have to be changed to comply with the
Smart Grid.
 

Chef

LE
The EV story seems to be one of 'this is going to happen' any doubts or questions are covered in a flurry of environmental flim flam and 'It'll be fine'.

I agree, I've said that many times on this thread
For instance,
The Smart grid will look after things, no need for more capacity,
When is that going to happen, I ask,
then it's 'It'll be fine'.
The Smart grid should have been up and running at the start of
the so-called "going green", and then added to as the change-over takes place.
Now there are hundreds of chargers that will have to be changed to comply with the
Smart Grid.
On the news R4 Today, not electricity, but indicative of the mindset.

If the powers that be decide to try using Hydrogen for domestic supplies all the current smart meters will have to be changed as they don't work with Hydrogen.

Doubtless someone will say they weren't made with this in mind, fair enough, I'd say that too.

But I'm not paid large amounts of money to be an expert in smart meters and possibly have some insight into future proofing equipment.

A similar scenario with smart meters that don't work with new suppliers. Something that was common when they were first rolled out.

But it saves the Polar penguins and it'll be fine.
 

Joshua Slocum

LE
Book Reviewer
Wow, I’m surprised 100 amp supply here is minimal with new and a lot of places upgrading to 200 amp. The Tesla wall charger is up to 11.5 kw and is quoted at 44 miles per hour. A 40 amp supply would be tricky but I bet you would be ok at 60a in the uk (sorry I don’t know where you are). You can set the car to take what you want and a 250 - 300km overnight charge set at 18 amps is easy with a decent sleep. I set mine to start at 11pm cheap rate.
West Country uk
A great deal of ourr supply network is from the 1920s-1940s era but the cables are of excellent quality, however continual building work means the system is straining, on Monday we had a massive blackout due to a sub station overheating and high power loading
Also our streets are narrow, not laid out in a grid, many of the underground cables pass through private property, and some have been covered with new buildings
But I am sure a system will be worked out, but who is going to pay for the infrastructure?
 

anglo

LE
West Country uk
A great deal of ourr supply network is from the 1920s-1940s era but the cables are of excellent quality, however continual building work means the system is straining, on Monday we had a massive blackout due to a sub station overheating and high power loading
Also our streets are narrow, not laid out in a grid, many of the underground cables pass through private property, and some have been covered with new buildings
But I am sure a system will be worked out, but who is going to pay for the infrastructure?
who is going to pay for the infrastructure?

Why worry future Generations will be saddled with all the debt,
the people who create this debt won't be around to pay the bill,
no matter what we do, the end result will be the same,
the demise of the human race
The simple truth is, there is to many people on the planet
 

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