What was God doing before he said "Let there be light"?

Nehustan

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On ROPs
#1
Ok another thread for us to discuss the ins and outs of hocus pocus. It's going to be hard to discuss theological concepts without referring to what you call stories. In fact even your question uses them as the reference for its framing, so I am afraid we may well have to refer to scripture. Hopefully tho' we can analyse it critically and if we decide it is metaphorical try and assesss what might be the metaphysical concepts the metaphor stands for.

Should actually be quite good fun. One of my favourite pursuits as a younger Nehustan was disussing hocus pocus with friends through the night until the sun had risen on another day. Why not reproduce it on ARRSE and let everyone give their tuppence...

(my admin work is finished so I have some free time ;) )
 

Nehustan

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On ROPs
#4
(By the way this came up in another thread so this isn't a completely random thread!!!!)

I guess I'm going to have to start by dissecting the question and trying to decide what it says, and if as a structure it stands as a valid enquiry or whether anything is immediately unclear and needs clarification.

"What was God doing before he said "Let there be light"?"

I guess the first thing that jumps out at me is the use of tenses and conjunctions that indicate temporality to God. I guess I would open up the discussion as to how we define 'time' and under what criteria does 'time' exist. Then moving on from how we have delineated time; at what point did time begin?
 
#8
The Hawking-Turok Instanton theory suggests that the universe began from very little: The instanton which is something and nothing.*

So where did this Instanton come from then? Errrr dunno.

So maybe God was sitting there playing marbles with his Instantons and one went off.. "Oh Bugger, another Universe to worry about"

*An instanton or pseudoparticle is a notion appearing in theoretical and mathematical physics. Mathematically, instanton is a self-dual connection in a principal bundle over a four-dimensional Riemannian manifold playing the role of physical space-time in nonabelian gauge theory. Instantons are topologically nontrivial solutions of Yang-Mills equations that absolutely minimize the energy functional within their topological type. First such solutions were discovered in the case of four-dimensional euclidean space compactified to the four-dimensional sphere, and turned out to be localized in space-time, prompting the names pseudoparticle and instanton.

All clear on that? Good.
 

Nehustan

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#10
leveller said:
Easy, nothing, he/she doesn't exist :thumleft:
Being lazy I will refer the gentleman to answer I previously gave in the thread that gave rise to this one...


Nehustan said:
God does not exist. Well there is a semantic argument I love to reel out when it comes to this statement. What does existence mean? I guess it means that it exists to our mind? There's a whole heap of undergraduate philosophy one could reel out at this point, i.e. 'If a tree falls in a forest with no body to hear it, does it make a sound?', but let's not go there. Let's forget all the existentialist toings and froings, and let's stick with how we define existence. I guess it falls on our ability to measure and quantify. We know something exists if we can measure it, test it, reproduce the test, and allow for circumstances under which the rules we establish would cease to be true. Of course people will tell you God 'exists', that they know he does, they feel it, he's made himself known to them, but this is what is known as anecdotal evidence, fine for matters of faith, but not exactly the scientific method. I'm taking when you talk about existing, this is what you mean? Quantifiable? Measureable? Understandable? Perceivable? Falsifiable? Reproducible? I'm presuming this is what you mean so by all means correct me if I'm wrong?

So basically 'things' exist. There are things we didn't understand in the past, that we understand today, the atomic and molecular components of substances around us, knowledge of 'things' has progressed. Will we ever be able to measure God, the infinite and absolute, that if we are to believe scripture preceded 'things', i.e. phenomena in the universe/'creation'? It would seem counterintuitive. I think we could probably say that by the way we measure things, God is no thing, beyond perception, unable to be quantified via the scientific method etc.

So (and I LOVE this bit). The atheist says 'there is nothing, God does not exist' whereas the believer says 'God is no thing, by our definition of existence, he does not exist.'

My slant, well, it would seem, Q.E.D., that God does not exist, but...I still believe in him.

Now THAT....was fun.

Shabbat Shalom :twisted:
 
#12
Maybe its because I accept that everything cannot be explained through our short and limited knowledge. But I dont need the crutch of a religion to fill in the gaps, I just accept mankind does not have all the answers, and will not for a very long time.
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Like women.... let your god explain how they work, I'm in the congregation waiting for that answer :D
 
#15
Moving into the FUP, obviously.

Either that or flipping through the pamphlet to see if the SRI should be left in or not.
 

Nehustan

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On ROPs
#17
Just had some interesting input from a Jehovah's witness at work, basically in the form of a reprimand at saying God does not exist by our definition of existence, followed by an attempt to 'prove' to me that God 'exists', very amusing as I believe in God. Will relay the conversation when I get home, it was really very funny.
 
#19
Nehustan said:
Just had some interesting input from a Jehovah's witness at work, basically in the form of a reprimand at saying God does not exist by our definition of existence, followed by an attempt to 'prove' to me that God 'exists', very amusing as I believe in God. Will relay the conversation when I get home, it was really very funny.
You are Caubeen and I claim my fiver.
 
#20
Before he turned on the lights, he was doing the risk assessment for turning on the lights.

Then he will have done the PGE form, 7 weeks before the event.

Then he will have changed the date at least twice because the Band / Chefs weren't available.

Then he will have changed it again as the visiting dignitary / trg area was double-booked.

Finally, the turning on of the lights event will have been postponed as it required overseas travel / track miles / ILLUM / too many MTDs, until the next financial year.
 

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