What somebody in the White House wants to hide?

KGB_resident · May 28, 2009

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5395830/Abu-Ghraib-abuse-photos-show-rape.html

Photographs of alleged prisoner abuse which Barack Obama is attempting to censor include images of apparent rape and sexual abuse, it has emerged.

At least one picture shows an American soldier apparently raping a female prisoner while another is said to show a male translator raping a male detainee.

Further photographs are said to depict sexual assaults on prisoners with objects including a truncheon, wire and a phosphorescent tube.

Another apparently shows a female prisoner having her clothing forcibly removed to expose her breasts.

Detail of the content emerged from Major General Antonio Taguba, the former army officer who conducted an inquiry into the Abu Ghraib jail in Iraq.

Allegations of rape and abuse were included in his 2004 report but the fact there were photographs was never revealed. He has now confirmed their existence in an interview with the Daily Telegraph.
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A rape is a very serious criminal act by any standards. Were alleged rapists tried, sentenced, jailed? If not then why?

The graphic nature of some of the images may explain the US Presidentâs attempts to block the release of an estimated 2,000 photographs from prisons in Iraq and Afghanistan despite an earlier promise to allow them to be published.

In April, Mr Obamaâs administration said the photographs would be released and it would be âpointless to appealâ against a court judgment in favour of the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU).

But after lobbying from senior military figures, Mr Obama changed his mind saying they could put the safety of troops at risk.

Earlier this month, he said: âThe most direct consequence of releasing them, I believe, would be to inflame anti-American public opinion and to put our troops in greater danger.â

Mr Obama seemed to reinforce that view by adding: âI want to emphasise that these photos that were requested in this case are not particularly sensational,
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Not, particulary sensational? Maybe he sees scenes of rape fron his dog house every day? Photo of rape is not sensational? Moron.

Mr Obama said the individuals involved had been âidentified, and appropriate actionsâ taken.
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I fancy that the rapists got home arrests with visiting girls. What are these actions, exactly?

Among the graphic statements, which were later released under US freedom of information laws, is that of Kasim Mehaddi Hilas in which he says: âI saw [name of a translator] ******* a kid, his age would be about 15 to 18 years. The kid was hurting very bad and they covered all the doors with sheets. Then when I heard screaming I climbed the door because on top it wasnât covered and I saw [name] who was wearing the military uniform, putting his **** in the little kidâs ***â¦. and the female soldier was taking pictures.â
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So the Mutt unlike highly esteemed mr.Bush is a coward. He is not brave enough to confess wrongdoings, to say simply: forgive us.

chrisg46 · May 28, 2009

But if you switch American to Russian, and Iraqi to Chechan, i have no dubt this would all be lies.

Also have i missed something? Why is Obama referred to as the Mutt?

KGB_resident · May 28, 2009

chrisg46 said:

But if you switch American to Russian, and Iraqi to Chechan, i have no dubt this would all be lies.

Also have i missed something? Why is Obama referred to as the Mutt?
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Mr.Obama called himself a mutt. This gives anybody right to do it as well (moreover some meaning of this words) are well fit to him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VP4Upf7508g

PS. Just imagine (I can't imagine) that photos of rape of female prisoner by uniformed serviceman would be made in British detention center. Would it be a sensation? It would be a political bomb.

TankiesYank · May 28, 2009

KGB_resident said:

So the Mutt unlike highly esteemed mr.Bush is a coward. He is not brave enough to confess wrongdoings, to say simply: forgive us.
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Never thought I'd see THAT phrase on this board. Although the phrase 'weighted comparison' leaps to mind.

Also have i missed something? Why is Obama referred to as the Mutt?
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I think he's referring to how Mr. Obama himself referred to his own biracial ethnic heritage in an interview. It was a throwaway comment that always had potential for being locked on by people who think they're scoring clever points. It's also a comment I identify with wholeheartedly.

DeltaDog · May 28, 2009

It may just be clever PR, but the way it comes across is that he's genuinely trying to do the right thing. He wanted to release the photos - until somebody pointed out that it would put American troops in danger and he did a u-turn.

Command_doh · May 28, 2009

But if you switch American to Russian, and Iraqi to Chechan, i have no dubt this would all be lies.
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Rape, torture, beatings, theivery - all abhorrent anywhere, especially in fighting forces.....

...but all standard procedure over the years in an ill equipped, ill disciplined, morally bereft and desertion - happy Russian Army.

Some of the most prolific being the Officer Corp.

I'm sure Anna Politskoyava would have written another book on the subject. If Putin hadn't had here killed, obviously.

in_the_cheapseats · May 28, 2009

Command_doh said:

But if you switch American to Russian, and Iraqi to Chechan, i have no dubt this would all be lies.
Click to expand...

Rape, torture, beatings, theivery - all abhorrent anywhere, especially in fighting forces.....

...but all standard procedure over the years in an ill equipped, ill disciplined, morally bereft and desertion - happy Russian Army.

Some of the most prolific being the Officer Corp.

I'm sure Anna Politskoyava would have written another book on the subject. If Putin hadn't had here killed, obviously.
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And there's the point, Sergey. What would your beloved leader have done? Nothing different, I'm sure. And I bet (hard cash too - a real cert for this tight Scot to do that..) that he has never, ever said "sorry" or "forgive us" for any of the abuses that the Russian Army is known to have carried out in a variety of places.

To the Obama decision - I see no point in releasing photos of that nature. What would be the point of deliberately antagonising the local population? He is between a rock and a hard place. He either gets some abuse for with holding the photos or lots of riots if he does.

As far as I'm concerned, he has made the right call and exactly the same one that Putin or any other Russian leader would have done.

Rumpelstiltskin · May 28, 2009

Sergey,

You seem to be applying a vastly different burden of proof to these rape allegations than you do to the (historically well-attested) mass rapes carried out by the Red Army across swathes of Eastern Europe, in another thread.

Also, I'd drop the 'mutt' thing. It's not a good look.

KGB_resident · May 28, 2009

Rumpelstiltskin said:

Sergey,

You seem to be applying a vastly different burden of proof to these rape allegations than you do to the (historically well-attested) mass rapes carried out by the Red Army across swathes of Eastern Europe, in another thread.
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Yes, they are allegations. But we have: place, approximate date, description of the alleged crime. There is a serious source.

As for your claim about the Red army and the alleged crimes then let's look at facts. There are simple questions: Where? When? And what exactly happened?

Rumpelstiltskin said:

Also, I'd drop the 'mutt' thing. It's not a good look.
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Agreed. I will not use this word toward mr.Obama anymore.

KGB_resident · May 28, 2009

in_the_cheapseats said:

Command_doh said:

But if you switch American to Russian, and Iraqi to Chechan, i have no dubt this would all be lies.
Click to expand...

Rape, torture, beatings, theivery - all abhorrent anywhere, especially in fighting forces.....

...but all standard procedure over the years in an ill equipped, ill disciplined, morally bereft and desertion - happy Russian Army.

Some of the most prolific being the Officer Corp.

I'm sure Anna Politskoyava would have written another book on the subject. If Putin hadn't had here killed, obviously.
Click to expand...

And there's the point, Sergey. What would your beloved leader have done? Nothing different, I'm sure.
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Exactly. Moreover, moron Putin would try to hide any unpleasant story completely.

in_the_cheapseats said:

And I bet (hard cash too - a real cert for this tight Scot to do that..) that he has never, ever said "sorry" or "forgive us" for any of the abuses that the Russian Army is known to have carried out in a variety of places.
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Mr.Putin sounded this phrase. After the end of the operation in the Theatre center in Moscow he said: we were unable to save all hostages. Forgive us.

in_the_cheapseats said:

To the Obama decision - I see no point in releasing photos of that nature. What would be the point of deliberately antagonising the local population? He is between a rock and a hard place. He either gets some abuse for with holding the photos or lots of riots if he does.

As far as I'm concerned, he has made the right call and exactly the same one that Putin or any other Russian leader would have done.
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I agree that it would be better not to publish the new photes (and previous ones as well).

However, I believe that the public has right to know what crime happened. Influence of public opinion in Russia still is not strong. So the Americans show wrong example hiding alleged serious war crimes for years.

Cuddles · May 28, 2009

KGB_resident said:

As for your claim about the Red army and the alleged crimes then let's look at facts. There are simple questions: Where? When? And what exactly happened?
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Well a friend of mine's mother, a German lady told me that she, her mother and several of her friend's and their mothers were raped in East Prussia sytematically - repeatedly in other words, on several occasions and with no response from Soviet military authorities. However she is a distinguished member of the WI, a former councillor, an MBE and a noted charity worker. she must be a bloody liar!

homeworker · May 28, 2009

I think that you will find that the tip of the iceburg is here: http://www.arrse.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/t=121831/start=80.html

Command_doh · May 28, 2009

Cuddles said:

KGB_resident said:

As for your claim about the Red army and the alleged crimes then let's look at facts. There are simple questions: Where? When? And what exactly happened?
Click to expand...

Well a friend of mine's mother, a German lady told me that she, her mother and several of her friend's and their mothers were raped in East Prussia sytematically - repeatedly in other words, on several occasions and with no response from Soviet military authorities. However she is a distinguished member of the WI, a former councillor, an MBE and a noted charity worker. she must be a bloody liar!
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Of course she is! How could Stalin and his chumps have allowed, condoned or committed any kind of atrocity during the 'Great Patriotic War'.................

Yes, Uncle Josef wasn't a crazed genocidal despot at all....

KGB_resident · May 28, 2009

Cuddles said:

KGB_resident said:

As for your claim about the Red army and the alleged crimes then let's look at facts. There are simple questions: Where? When? And what exactly happened?
Click to expand...

Well a friend of mine's mother, a German lady told me that she, her mother and several of her friend's and their mothers were raped in East Prussia sytematically - repeatedly in other words, on several occasions and with no response from Soviet military authorities. However she is a distinguished member of the WI, a former councillor, an MBE and a noted charity worker. she must be a bloody liar!
Click to expand...

East Prussia? Where exactly? When? How many were raped. Was the alleged crime recorded by German authorities? Your story is incomplete. It is impossible to check facts because there are no key details.

Let's look at these allegations

http://www.lietuvos.net/istorija/communism/world_war_2_soviet_war_crimes.htm

On the 16th of February, soldiers of the First White Russian Army occupied the town of Neustettin just inside the German border with Poland. In the town was the 'Wilmsee' camp of the German R.A.D. (Reich Women's Labour Service). In the huts were some 500 uniformed German girls of the RAD. They were taken to the foreign workers barracks at the local iron foundry. All were considered by the Russians to be members of an illegal army. In an office set up by the Russian commissar groups of girls were brought in and ordered to undress. Two men (believed to be Poles) then entered and grabbing one of the girls bent her backwards over the edge of a table and then proceeded to cut off her vitals before the eyes of the others. Her screams were accompanied by cheers and howls of approval from the Russians. The same fate awaited all the others each procedure becoming ever more cruel. More girls were brought in continually and out in the courtyard hundreds were clubbed to death, only the prettiest being led to the commissars office for torture and death. A few days later when a German tank unit from Cottbus temporarily recaptured the town they were utterly devastated by what they saw. Survivors told of what they had seen. Mothers had to witness their ten and twelve year old daughters being raped by up to twenty soldiers, the daughters in turn witnessing their mothers being raped, even their grandmothers. In most houses in the town nearly every room contained naked and dead women with the Swastika symbol crudely carved on their abdomens. No mercy was shown to the women and girls of Neustettin. It is estimated that about 2,000 girls that had been in the RAD and BDM (League of German Girls) camps in and around the town were raped and murdered in the few days of the Soviet occupation.
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There is a lot of such 'allegations' but serious historian are able to find the truth.

http://www.nizkor.org/ftp.cgi/people/ftp.py?people//k/kleinsorg.horst.o/neustettin-propaganda.01

Until February 28, Neustettin was in the hands of the Wehrmacht,
then taken by units of the 3rd Guard Tank Corps of the Red Army
together with the 19th Armee, both belonging to the 2rd Byelorussian
Front. Those units pressed further North during their offensive
and reached the shore of the Baltic Sea 3 days later - not the
least sign for a counteroffensive of the Wehrmacht much less a
recapture of the city exists.
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So the story contains false details. The story appeared approximately in 1995 and its value is zero.

Bradstyley · May 28, 2009

Calling Obama 'The Boy' is hardly less racist in an american context is it? 'Tote that pail for me boy!'

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What somebody in the White House wants to hide?

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Is mr.Obama right to hide the photos

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KGB_resident

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KGB_resident

KGB_resident

Cuddles

homeworker

Command_doh Book Reviewer

KGB_resident

Bradstyley

What somebody in the White House wants to hide?

Welcome to the Army Rumour Service, ARRSE

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Absolutely

Rather yes

Yes, but the wrongdoers should be named

Rather no

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