What offence would an officer be committing if they ordered troops into friendly fire

[Draft Dodger]

That joke is a museum exhibit The other sides joke was..

“You can tell the nationality of an aircraft by the colour it is painted. If it is camouflaged it is British. If it painted silver it is American and if you cant see it all it is German.

There has not been a systematic historic study of friendly fire since 1982. Here is a m,oral question for you.

If attacked by "Friendly aircraft" do you shoot back? You might shoot them down but any return fire will spoil the pilot's aim.

dont need to, the RAF shoot up their own equipment

 

[stacker1]

Poor joke as it will be picked up by the civi's and journalists who seem to plague this site and believe it as true

When was the last time a journo quoted ARRSE as a source of military information?

 

[Lindermyer]

That joke is a museum exhibit The other sides joke was..

“You can tell the nationality of an aircraft by the colour it is painted. If it is camouflaged it is British. If it painted silver it is American and if you cant see it all it is German.

There has not been a systematic historic study of friendly fire since 1982. Here is a m,oral question for you.

If attacked by "Friendly aircraft" do you shoot back? You might shoot them down but any return fire will spoil the pilot's aim.

I read somewhere* that some units had a policy of firing at attacking US aircraft in Italy

Included was the probably bowlocks claim that some opened fire on US aircraft on sight because they knew it would attack them

*It was a history book equivalent to Hastings and im aware hes prone to repeating/crediting myths

 

[theoriginalphantom]

When was the last time a journo quoted ARRSE as a source of military information?

Don't they rely on M*M***T these days?

 

[JJWRacing]

When was the last time a journo quoted ARRSE as a source of military information?

Judging by what they spout in the news most of the time

 

[stacker1]

Judging by what they spout in the news most of the time

Lets have a link to them quoting ARRSE then.

 

[JJWRacing]

Lets have a link to them quoting ARRSE then.

MPs court ARRSE but may find squaddie banter too blue for purpose

www.standard.co.uk

Wanted: recruits for touchy-feely army. Sorry, no facial tats | Catherine Bennett

For some reason, a new advertising campaign fails to mention poor pay and conditions and the need to kill

www.theguardian.com

 

[stacker1]

MPs court ARRSE but may find squaddie banter too blue for purpose

www.standard.co.uk

Wanted: recruits for touchy-feely army. Sorry, no facial tats | Catherine Bennett

For some reason, a new advertising campaign fails to mention poor pay and conditions and the need to kill

www.theguardian.com

First one is from 2013 the second is from 2018.
Not really an overwhelming amount or even recent.

 

[theoriginalphantom]

When was the last time a journo quoted ARRSE as a source of military information?

apparently two years ago.

we got mentions a few years ago - there was massive pride from those who were quoted. I can't even remember what it was about.


I await the moderators rightful smiting for clearly damaging the arrse brand and potentially causing a colossal international incident with the Americans* (again)






*MSF accused the Doc and me of "stealing a patient at gunpoint" from a local hospital. It got mentioned (apparently) in some local devolved government somewhere called Washington.

 

[Runnybabbit]

Pte Dave Parr, 2 Para was killed on the last day of the Falklands War, by an arty blue-on-blue. Sad part about it, was that the family weren't fully informed of the circumstances. Cue them reading the article about the battle a year later, by Maj Gen John Frost (Retd) in which Pte Parr was named as a fatality in the barrage, and you can imagine how that must have affected them.

If anyone's interested, I can recommend the book 'Our Boys' by Helen Parr. Dave Parr was her Uncle, and she was 7 years old when he was killed. About the Parachute Regiment in the seventies and finishing with the aftermath of the Falklands conflict, it's interesting in that it deals with the ethos of that regiment, but also with the socio/economic climate of the time and many of the reasons people joined up in the first place.

Last know pic of Dave Parr, taken at Fitzroy, waiting to embark on a helicopter:

Left to right: Private Dave Parr, Lance Corporal Neil Turner and Private Terry Stears.

 

[Pteranadon]

I read somewhere* that some units had a policy of firing at attacking US aircraft in Italy

Included was the probably bowlocks claim that some opened fire on US aircraft on sight because they knew it would attack them

*It was a history book equivalent to Hastings and im aware hes prone to repeating/crediting myths

The AA of 59th Division went weapons free on US aircraft 14-15th August 1944. They accepted the bombing by four engine bombers as an accident but shot back when attacked by Thunderbolt fighters.

One Light AA unit defending the bridges over the river Dives in mid August 1944 was forced to shoot down a Typhoon that would not stop strafing crossing their VP.

My sources are AA unit war diaries. There was a lot more friendly fire in Normandy than usually admitted. A spectacular piece of close air support by P38s the wrong side of a river put one of the 51st Highland Division Brigade HQ out of action for 12 hours before a river crossing in the pursuit to the Seine.

 

[QRK2]

Pte Dave Parr, 2 Para was killed on the last day of the Falklands War, by an arty blue-on-blue. Sad part about it, was that the family weren't fully informed of the circumstances. Cue them reading the article about the battle a year later, by Maj Gen John Frost (Retd) in which Pte Parr was named as a fatality in the barrage, and you can imagine how that must have affected them.

If anyone's interested, I can recommend the book 'Our Boys' by Helen Parr. Dave Parr was her Uncle, and she was 7 years old when he was killed. About the Parachute Regiment in the seventies and finishing with the aftermath of the Falklands conflict, it's interesting in that it deals with the ethos of that regiment, but also with the socio/economic climate of the time and many of the reasons people joined up in the first place.

Last know pic of Dave Parr, taken at Fitzroy, waiting to embark on a helicopter:View attachment 463818

Left to right: Private Dave Parr, Lance Corporal Neil Turner and Private Terry Stears.

There was a RUSI podcast with her speaking after she won the Wellington Medal, but I can't find that right now.

She also talks here:

BBC Radio 4 - Start the Week, The Reality of War

Andrew Marr with Max Hastings, Helen Parr, Richard Dannatt and Deborah Haynes.

www.bbc.co.uk

and here (if you can put up with Snow Jr)

 

[MoleBath]

If you are assaulting a strongly held enemy position you will want to keep arty on the objective as long as possible to neutralise the enemy. Probably safer to take an odd friendly casualty than lifting prematurely . The PER factor depends on direction GT . Best to discuss carefully with FOO

 

[Dalef65]

Pte Dave Parr, 2 Para was killed on the last day of the Falklands War, by an arty blue-on-blue. Sad part about it, was that the family weren't fully informed of the circumstances. Cue them reading the article about the battle a year later, by Maj Gen John Frost (Retd) in which Pte Parr was named as a fatality in the barrage, and you can imagine how that must have affected them.

If anyone's interested, I can recommend the book 'Our Boys' by Helen Parr. Dave Parr was her Uncle, and she was 7 years old when he was killed. About the Parachute Regiment in the seventies and finishing with the aftermath of the Falklands conflict, it's interesting in that it deals with the ethos of that regiment, but also with the socio/economic climate of the time and many of the reasons people joined up in the first place.

Last know pic of Dave Parr, taken at Fitzroy, waiting to embark on a helicopter:View attachment 463818

Left to right: Private Dave Parr, Lance Corporal Neil Turner and Private Terry Stears.

Magazine on That Rifle.....

 

[Black Dyke]

Magazine on That Rifle.....

30 round L4 LMG Mag.

 

[bigeye]

Poor joke as it will be picked up by the civi's and journalists who seem to plague this site and believe it as true

Shit, thanks. I wouldn't have noticed this until you flagged it up. I'm going straight around to the BBC's Defence Editor with this bit of History Gold.

 

[theoriginalphantom]

Shit, thanks. I wouldn't have noticed this until you flagged it up. I'm going straight around to the BBC's Defence Editor with this bit of History Gold.

Make sure they get my name right when they quite my fairly anonymous online persona

 

[bigeye]

Make sure they get my name right when they quite my family anonymous online persona

All one word or hyphenated?

 

[theoriginalphantom]

All one word or hyphenated?

all one word and to make sure the right level of gravitas is associated with the post can you make sure my profile pic is included?

 

[Bodenplatte]

In June 1963 a Belgian Air Force C-119 Flying Boxcar was hit by a WP mortar bomb over Sennelager with the loss of 38 lives. A few Belgian paras (about 5) managed to jump safely.

Situation was that three Boxcars took off from Melsbroek (now Brussels airport) with the intention of dropping a company of Paras near Geseke (on Route 1 about 10km SE of Lippstadt) as part of an exercise called (Something) Lance.
Whilst airborne message was passed that drop was cancelled, and it was decided to land at Gutersloh to let the Paras dismount. This required a large left turn over Sennelager ranges. The aircraft were in ATC Hanover airspace, and final control was handed to RAF Gutersloh, who directed them in over Detmold/Sennelager ranges. All mortar firing should have ceased at 1200 but the Belgians swear that their aircraft was hit at 5 minutes after 1200.
A bomb hit the starboard wing and ignited fuel tanks. The crew tried to keep the aircraft aloft, and the dispatchers started to chuck paras out. When the starboard rear door was opened it was seen that it could not be used due to the flames coursing down that side, and so only the port door could be used.

I won't mention the Brit unit involved, but I knew it very well from a few months after the incident. They were on last round of training/exercise prior to returning to UK after a full BAOR tour. There was some suspicion (putting it mildly) that they had continued firing after 1200 in order to use up allotted ammunition.