What offence would an officer be committing if they ordered troops into friendly fire

QRK2

LE
Different country but the French in WWI expected a percentage of casualties from friendly fire when advancing behind a barrage, the logic being that if you weren't that close the enemy would have time to regroup and put up an effective resistance to the attack.
Not just the French, us as well.
 
Not just the French, us as well.
I have trawled through this thread and while people have mentioned the French and WW1 nobody as far as I can see has mentioned an act which fits the thread title more or less exactly.
I refer to Souain corporals affair - Wikipedia which lead to the well known Stanley Kubrick film Paths of Glory - Wikipedia

The idiot French general who gave the order to shell his own troops retired with honour and lashings of medals with his official reputation intact.
The four French Corporals caught up in the idiots clusterf*ck never really got the justice they deserved.

Shameful incident in French military history IMHO.
 

Chef

LE
Not just the French, us as well.
I think the French attitude was the attack wasn't being executed with enough elan, panache or joie de vivre reulting in a black mark for the commander concerned, Almost the opposite of the OP's question.

Bearing in mind the French army at the turn of the last century was devoted to an offensive philosophy, Infantry in conjunction with the 75mm field gun* sweeping the field and winning the day, it isn't surprising that that viewpoint was taken with regards to casualties while attacking.

I'm not sure they actually had many defence tactics.

*The same gun system that the early Shermans and Lee/Grants had in WWII.
 

QRK2

LE
I think the French attitude was the attack wasn't being executed with enough elan, panache or joie de vivre reulting in a black mark for the commander concerned, Almost the opposite of the OP's question.

Bearing in mind the French army at the turn of the last century was devoted to an offensive philosophy, Infantry in conjunction with the 75mm field gun* sweeping the field and winning the day, it isn't surprising that that viewpoint was taken with regards to casualties while attacking.

I'm not sure they actually had many defence tactics.

*The same gun system that the early Shermans and Lee/Grants had in WWII.
Quite probably, "les pantalons rouge sont l'armée francaise" and all that. Leaning on the barrage/Vimy glide was very much an Empire tactic in the latter half on the first war and the second one as well. The aim was of course to minimise overall casualties, but that there was a probability of a number of casualties from our own fire was known and considered an acceptable payoff.
 

japseyewarrior

Old-Salt
the second by istar who pinged us as enemy in a compound. when i checked the grid all 8 figs were the same as my gps and i was standing in a courtyard, i gave them a wave.
Had the same thing happen when a fellow JTAC was led down the garden path by an asset being controlled by a couple of blokes in an ISO in America.
You would like to think red flags would have started to appear when the description of “single FAM with LBW lying on the roof facing away from friendlies...looks to be wearing helmet and body armour”.
Just fortunate I was monitoring the same net as the 9 line was passed with the grid.
 
I remember being in Cyprus 1988/1990 when 2nd Batt Coldstream Guards were at Episkopi. What a fuckin` nightmare tour that ws for the poor buggers.

Anyway, to keep on thread, I recall an incident at Akamas ranges where a section attack was taking pace with a rolling mortar bombardment ahead. Only thing was, the Oficer i/c got his co ordinates wrong and the barrage came back onto the section going forward. Quite a few Coldstreamers were injured but I think the dead guy was REME attached. The officer i/cs punishment was, I heard from a reliable source, no promotion for ten years.

As I said, that tour was horrendous for them. Eight troops were killed when the four tonner bringing them back from Troodos radar site went off the mountain road.

There were other incidents and if I remember correctly, 22 men didn`t make it back to the UK. Some sunshine tour that eh?
 
Had the same thing happen when a fellow JTAC was led down the garden path by an asset being controlled by a couple of blokes in an ISO in America.
You would like to think red flags would have started to appear when the description of “single FAM with LBW lying on the roof facing away from friendlies...looks to be wearing helmet and body armour”.
Just fortunate I was monitoring the same net as the 9 line was passed with the grid.
it’s interesting how people can talk themselves into stuff and see what they want to see. Look at every airliner that’s been shot down...

to be fair to the guys involved in my example there had been fighters in the compound just before who bugged out as we bugged in. We were passed the grid via Bn HQ and they did sound very excited....it was probably the most enemy they’d seen in one place and were wetting themselves at the idea of malleting them all in one go.

I think the snipers might’ve been closer to getting me and the other lad killed though as when I tried to slag them off about it a few days later there was absolutely no banter and my mate just looked a bit pale.
 

japseyewarrior

Old-Salt
to be fair to the guys involved in my example there had been fighters in the compound just before who bugged out as we bugged in. We were passed the grid via Bn HQ and they did sound very excited....it was probably the most enemy they’d seen in one place and were wetting themselves at the idea of malleting them all in one go.
Absolute favourite were the JChat warriors. Contact 3 RPGs became 9 because people couldn’t read a time stamp and the screen rolled 3 times, they just missed it when it reset so read the same report 3 times thinking they were separate reports. 9 RPGs would have been considered WW3 given the J2.
 
This is still in the pam:

c. Movement. If there is still no reaction by the enemy, as a last resort the section commander should instruct two men or a fire team to get up and double a short distance to different cover. He might do this again if no fire is drawn the first time; a man getting up and dashing ten metres is a very hard target to hit.

Not me nowadays, I'd take a good couple of minutes and the Russians would hear my knees creaking if they were within rifle shot.


Or mortar range, if it was a damp day.
 

Daxx

MIA
Book Reviewer
I think the OP needs to do some more CE learning, maybe referred to the PEHB.
 
My first PT session at an artillery unit I picked up the first military t shirt i found wore it and wondered why everyone was blanking me, I'd forgotten that the tanky unit I had been with a few years previously had a blue on blue with the battery I was serving with.. Thanks EM

We had a death on the ranges in NI, shadowy people practicing dangerous stuff. Our only involvement in that one was the aircrew demanding we cleaned the airframe as it was 'medical shit, we don't do that' - we told 'em we'd be down with bleach and a hose. - they decided they did do that after all.

I also came close to shooting the Guard commander when I was a very new Pte in Germany. The fool thought he was still attached to the Hereford Hooligans and would hide in bushes while we patrolled the camp (Tabot Barracks for anyone who knows it)
This time he hid with a stick that looked a bit like an AK47 and wouldn't come out when challenged until my weapon was cocked (the good old SMG)

I was told of an incident in BATUS where allegedly the grid for the resupply and the motars target got mixed up and the SSM was shelled a bit. I have no proof and it's probably a story that's been going round since the beginning of mortars

Obviously these are just the ones I can think of and there must have been many, many more.

I came fairly close to That Rifle-ing the 2nd prowler patrol outside the wire at Woodhouse Eaves in 1990; halfwit Int Corps Sgt had sent them out, armed, after I (on prowler) reported a suspicious object up against the outside of the fence. Only, said Sgt. didn't pass on to me that the patrol was out, and put them on a different radio channel. Given it was a foggy night and I saw 2 x blokes with firearms, it could have gone front page wrong.

Dopey cow.
 
Really, we the British have killed more of our own people than the Americans, so that's not really a good offence name to call it.
Calm down dear, it was just a joke.

My wife's gran claimed that in WW2 the saying was when the Germans shoot, the Brits duck, when the Brits shoot the Germans duck. When the Americans shoot, everyone ducks.
 
Absolute favourite were the JChat warriors. Contact 3 RPGs became 9 because people couldn’t read a time stamp and the screen rolled 3 times, they just missed it when it reset so read the same report 3 times thinking they were separate reports. 9 RPGs would have been considered WW3 given the J2.
later the same day we had a bit of a dressing down (CO > OC > boss> jockery) because we’d killed one of the guys we were running about after and hadn’t thought to mention it (to be fair I don’t remember us reporting this in real time on other occasions) and they’d subsequently wasted a couple of hours looking for him.
 
Americans are awesome to work with - you've obviously never done it. I found them to be very professional, with hi tech equipment, a good work ethic and some very smart people.
That's why they worlds best software companies, and lots of modern tech are invented in the great USA.
If I was to be born again - I'd want to be born in the USA.
Bruce Springsteen walt


ETA - beaten to it by @anglo
 
Last edited:

JJWRacing

Clanker
Calm down dear, it was just a joke.

My wife's gran claimed that in WW2 the saying was when the Germans shoot, the Brits duck, when the Brits shoot the Germans duck. When the Americans shoot, everyone ducks.
Poor joke as it will be picked up by the civi's and journalists who seem to plague this site and believe it as true
 
Poor joke as it will be picked up by the civi's and journalists who seem to plague this site and believe it as true

then you have a lot of work to do trawling this site to pick up on all the rest. off you go now
 

Pteranadon

LE
Book Reviewer
theoriginalphantom said:
Calm down dear, it was just a joke.
My wife's gran claimed that in WW2 the saying was when the Germans shoot, the Brits duck, when the Brits shoot the Germans duck. When the Americans shoot, everyone ducks.
Poor joke as it will be picked up by the civi's and journalists who seem to plague this site and believe it as true
That joke is a museum exhibit ;) The other sides joke was..

“You can tell the nationality of an aircraft by the colour it is painted. If it is camouflaged it is British. If it painted silver it is American and if you cant see it all it is German.

There has not been a systematic historic study of friendly fire since 1982. Here is a m,oral question for you.

If attacked by "Friendly aircraft" do you shoot back? You might shoot them down but any return fire will spoil the pilot's aim.
 

Latest Threads

Top