What offence would an officer be committing if they ordered troops into friendly fire

If an officer deliberately ordered soldiers into their own artillery fire, what bits of military law would cover the situation?
If any of the soldiers were stupid enough to follow those orders - they need removed from the gene pool ASAP.

Personally I'd just shoot the officer myself for being a retard.
 
The offense would be "working with the Americans"
 

Pteranadon

LE
Book Reviewer
If any of the soldiers were stupid enough to follow those orders - they need removed from the gene pool ASAP.

Personally I'd just shoot the officer myself for being a retard.
Wouldn't these actions be offences under sections
12. Insubordination?
21. Threatening behaviour?
2. (5) if expressed in front of a soldier or civilian might "cause that person to become despondent or alarmed."
 
This is still in the pam:

c. Movement. If there is still no reaction by the enemy, as a last resort the section commander should instruct two men or a fire team to get up and double a short distance to different cover. He might do this again if no fire is drawn the first time; a man getting up and dashing ten metres is a very hard target to hit.
that's alright, the only issue is if you do locating by movement and locating fire at the same time....
 
The offense would be "working with the Americans"
Americans are awesome to work with - you've obviously never done it. I found them to be very professional, with hi tech equipment, a good work ethic and some very smart people.
That's why they worlds best software companies, and lots of modern tech are invented in the great USA.
If I was to be born again - I'd want to be born in the USA.
 
Wouldn't these actions be offences under sections
12. Insubordination?
21. Threatening behaviour?
2. (5) if expressed in front of a soldier or civilian might "cause that person to become despondent or alarmed."
I couldn't give a toss - at least I'd still be alive - and so would the human beings that the retarded officer had tried to send to their imminent graves. The officer would deserve to die and no amount of laws, regulations would change that.
 
I couldn't give a toss - at least I'd still be alive - and so would the human beings that the retarded officer had tried to send to their imminent graves. The officer would deserve to die and no amount of laws, regulations would change that.
I think you are missing the point - there are/were clearly cases where marching into/towards your own artillery fire is/was required - following a creeping barrage for instance in order to win the 'race to the parapet' and bomb and bayonet the Hun as he emerges blinking from his dugout....

I hope you wouldn't be trying to murder officers because of that.....
 
Americans are awesome to work with - you've obviously never done it. I found them to be very professional, with hi tech equipment, a good work ethic and some very smart people.
That's why they worlds best software companies, and lots of modern tech are invented in the great USA.
If I was to be born again - I'd want to be born in the USA.
You'd be wrong. Worked with them on 3 tours, the ones I spent time with would have been the first to make jokes about them being trigger happy and causing blue on blue.
One of them joked that "you guys count rounds, we count mags"
 

offog

LE
In peacetime / live exercises safety margins are built into FPF's

When the sh!t hits the fan in real time and you are in dire straights '' Right on top of your head '' is the correct answer.
Long Tan is a good example of FPF and danger close and having confidence in your gunners being able to get the bubble in the right place before firing.
 
You'd be wrong. Worked with them on 3 tours, the ones I spent time with would have been the first to make jokes about them being trigger happy and causing blue on blue.
One of them joked that "you guys count rounds, we count mags"
i do wonder if they just see more instances because they have more assets cutting about, it'd be interesting if you compared blue on blue per 100,000 engagements or something for different nations.

we've our own blue on blues in iraq and afghanistan and anecdotally we seem to have plenty of near misses
 
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Serious inquiry to support some historical research.

If an officer deliberately ordered soldiers into their own artillery fire, what bits of military law would cover the situation?
  1. Which bits of QRs are they contravening?
  2. What might they be charged with under the Army Act?
  3. In principle this might contravene the Military Covenant. Which bits?
  4. What is the legal authority for convening a board of Inquiry?
As this is within the context of ‘historic’ research, the timing is very relevant, such as which Army Act / Armed Forces Act would apply, ditto for Queens Regs

The Military Covenant (Armed Forces Covenant) didn’t exist before 2000, and would have little relevance as it’s intent is to not disadvantage service personnel and their families due to their service. Such as Council housing rules on ties to an area where the service family have moved around the country and abroad due to postings.
 
i do wonder if they just see more instances because they have more assets cutting about, i wonder if we'd be much better if you compared blue on blue per 100,000 engagements or something for different nations.

we've our own blue on blues in Iraq and Afghanistan and anecdotally we seem to have plenty of near misses

My first PT session at an artillery unit I picked up the first military t shirt i found wore it and wondered why everyone was blanking me, I'd forgotten that the tanky unit I had been with a few years previously had a blue on blue with the battery I was serving with.. Thanks EM

We had a death on the ranges in NI, shadowy people practicing dangerous stuff. Our only involvement in that one was the aircrew demanding we cleaned the airframe as it was 'medical shit, we don't do that' - we told 'em we'd be down with bleach and a hose. - they decided they did do that after all.

I also came close to shooting the Guard commander when I was a very new Pte in Germany. The fool thought he was still attached to the Hereford Hooligans and would hide in bushes while we patrolled the camp (Tabot Barracks for anyone who knows it)
This time he hid with a stick that looked a bit like an AK47 and wouldn't come out when challenged until my weapon was cocked (the good old SMG)

I was told of an incident in BATUS where allegedly the grid for the resupply and the motars target got mixed up and the SSM was shelled a bit. I have no proof and it's probably a story that's been going round since the beginning of mortars

Obviously these are just the ones I can think of and there must have been many, many more.
 
My first PT session at an artillery unit I picked up the first military t shirt i found wore it and wondered why everyone was blanking me, I'd forgotten that the tanky unit I had been with a few years previously had a blue on blue with the battery I was serving with.. Thanks EM

We had a death on the ranges in NI, shadowy people practicing dangerous stuff. Our only involvement in that one was the aircrew demanding we cleaned the airframe as it was 'medical shit, we don't do that' - we told 'em we'd be down with bleach and a hose. - they decided they did do that after all.

I also came close to shooting the Guard commander when I was a very new Pte in Germany. The fool thought he was still attached to the Hereford Hooligans and would hide in bushes while we patrolled the camp (Tabot Barracks for anyone who knows it)
This time he hid with a stick that looked a bit like an AK47 and wouldn't come out when challenged until my weapon was cocked (the good old SMG)

I was told of an incident in BATUS where allegedly the grid for the resupply and the motars target got mixed up and the SSM was shelled a bit. I have no proof and it's probably a story that's been going round since the beginning of mortars

Obviously these are just the ones I can think of and there must have been many, many more.
a mate of mine was in a compound that had been taken off the taliban/whoever a week or so previously. as far as i understand it the compound numbers for that area were re-numbered following the op but this didnt filter through to everyone. this resulted in some 105's (i think he said 6 or 8 rounds) being called in on the compound he and some others were in, luckily resulting in no casualties....he said it was pretty impressive.

i (and some others but i always took it very personally) got ID'd as enemy twice. the first time at about 3k our snipers - too far out for them - and this was only halted as they were queuing up mortars, the second by istar who pinged us as enemy in a compound. when i checked the grid all 8 figs were the same as my gps and i was standing in a courtyard, i gave them a wave.

i can also think of an ND with a minimi which wouldve killed someone had it been a moment sooner.

as you said, many, many more. its a miracle that it doesnt happen more often
 

anglo

LE
Americans are awesome to work with - you've obviously never done it. I found them to be very professional, with hi tech equipment, a good work ethic and some very smart people.
That's why they worlds best software companies, and lots of modern tech are invented in the great USA.
If I was to be born again - I'd want to be born in the USA.
Bruce Springsteen walt
 
"We've learned a lesson from this apropos training methods and due diligence and we have learned a very valuable lesson which we will take forward in an even handed manner to reduce casualties in any future engagement. Our thoughts are with the family and friends of these 300 men and women." :cool:
 

Chef

LE
Different country but the French in WWI expected a percentage of casualties from friendly fire when advancing behind a barrage, the logic being that if you weren't that close the enemy would have time to regroup and put up an effective resistance to the attack.
 
I have to say that I'm surprised NDs don't happen more often in 'theatre' and I'd hope that decent training would be the reason.

I've personally witnessed 2 NDs in hostile environments (so not dropping the 12 bore and peppering the bloke on the next peg). Both were with AK derivatives and both with part time Militia

The first was in Ossetia, Georgia in 2008. A Georgian part timer was 'having a look' at a DShK and managed to fire off a round which luckily hit nothing but caused me, (I was standing close and had my back to the position), much distress.

The second was in Yemen where we taking refuge indoors at a 'safe' house just outside Aden. One of the militia blokes was changing magazines and talking at the same time. There was suddenly a huge bang and and a thwack as the round pinged off the floor and blasted through the wall at the other end of the room I was sitting in.
Weirdly nobody said anything for quite a while but then another Yemeni who'd been sitting opposite close to where the round had gone (and who I didn't even realise spoke English) exclaimed '****... me'
 
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