What now for western society?

Hairy-boab

Old-Salt
The first time I worked in America (having never had black colleagues/friends) I mistook one colleague for another. He just said "oh you want the other guy", and never mentioned it again (and was very friendly afterwards). I was obviously extremely embarrassed.

I dread to think what would have happened if a white colleague had heard the exchange!
 
Its been a pretty tumultuous past twelve months. Covid, BLM, the ever-burgeoning cancel-culture with cultural marxism at the very heart of it. Identity politics are now pretty much the norm-and nobody is safe. One common denominator is social media, where opinions are broadcast and spread like a contemporary cancer, often worn as a badge of honour in order to demonstrate allegiance to a given cause.

It depends on where on the overton scale of virtuous acceptibility those opinions fall though whether they can be openly broadcast. Western society has now reached a point where, if someone who ticks the correct boxes, and is somehow regarded as a sacred cow owing to having one of many protected characteristics- they are beyond criticism and, even those in the most upper echelons of our society are afraid to call out wrong-doings for what they are.

It seems to only affect western society - those nations we consider as being somewhat backward to us are still thriving, yet we handicap ourselves continually, be it on environmental issues, societal issues, immigration...the list goes on. At some point, it will reach a stage where it's untenable and people will live in fear of expressing their real thoughts, if they are deemed unfashionable. I have said it before -its almost as if western society is emulating the roman empire and will one day fall, all in the hope that, in several millenia historians will say of us: "Well they meant well..."

It does seem to be different times at present. I’m seeing a lot more virtue highlighting on LinkedIn now.
LinkedIn was supposed to be a networking tool for work (getting business or moving jobs etc). Now it’s full of the wokerati, virtue signalling, socialist finger pointing. And woe betide anyone who counters the thought Police. They are shot down and demands made to sack them from their current employment!
I keep quiet as regardless of opinion, I have a mortgage to pay.

I would say (IMHO) that over the last x years the socialists have taken over the media outlets. Be it social media or news, radio and television.

But, we should all stock up on popcorn and beer. As always there will be an equal and opposite reaction. Where the hard left are pushing an agenda they are making fertile ground for a hard right to counter the argument (starting to be seen in ‘murica). The potential for dangerous arguments is building.

Magic grandpa and that Abbott atrocity almost made power in this country. At the next election they may have done it (typical socialists, peaked too early).

The world outside the west must be pissing themselves as we argue over a person wearing opposite sex clothes can use a certain bathroom or be called a pro-noun, that having a BAME in the workplace to tick a box is now the thing regardless if they can do the job, etc etc etc.

The BAFTAs will have BAME winners this year. They are very open about it. They may not be the best actors but they fit the current agenda to win. And they say this with serious heads!!

The worlds gone ******* mad. I’m starting to feel we should welcome out Russian, Chinese masters when they arrive to get some normality back!!

Beer tonight, rant over. Remember it’s Steak and Blowjob day Sunday!
 

cowgoesmoo

Old-Salt
Equally you cite social media as a problem, is it though? Last I heared only 1/3rd of Britons had a Facebook account. That means 2/3rds don't. What I think you're seeing is the signal/noise ratio problem. With the Media amplifying the social media signal, mistakenly believing it's how the majority think, when in fact there's no way to easily access the majorities views.

It annoys me when I see lazy journalists (particularly the BBC) running stories with a single paragraph about what happened and the rest of the article about what was being said by some XLW/BLM/woke/SJW types on Twitter. Twitter is used by about 20% of the US population, of these 10% of the users create 80% of the content, so about 2% of the population overall are regular contributors. No reason to think the UK's figures are much different. The views of 2% of the population who use a left-leaning echo chamber doesn't represent the rest of society and frankly isn't news.
 
...Twitter is used by about 20% of the US population, of these 10% of the users create 80% of the content, so about 2% of the population overall are regular contributors. No reason to think the UK's figures are much different. The views of 2% of the population who use a left-leaning echo chamber doesn't represent the rest of society and frankly isn't news.

It must be representative. You're describing pandemic infection levels of wokeness there, and the planet was pretty much shut down for that. Why shouldn't 3 or 4% of the population have the power to shout the odds and shut down anything with which they disagree?
 
[snip]
I contend that BLM could not have happened without the confluence of events we've seen. The Marxists saw a weak point, in that government is overstretched, and went for it. Kemi Badenoch has already stood up in the House and said that identity politics has no place in our institutions. That's a line in the sand. A deadline.
Having seen her calmly eviscerate the Pottamus, I can see her going far.
 

colinmc400

Old-Salt
Check this out, one of the most balanced and forthright views i have seen on where the UK has gone. Make sure you watch the first couple of minutes, so you understand who this guy is and what he used to do for a living. Had me going "WOW" by the end, finally somebody from the other team saying it like it is - awesome work.

 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Check this out, one of the most balanced and forthright views i have seen on where the UK has gone. Make sure you watch the first couple of minutes, so you understand who this guy is and what he used to do for a living. Had me going "WOW" by the end, finally somebody from the other team saying it like it is - awesome work.

It was required viewing when first aired. I think he's been bloody brave to put himself out there. A lot of people slag him off because of who he was.

I doubt that Channel Four would air it these days.
 

Tyk

LE
Check this out, one of the most balanced and forthright views i have seen on where the UK has gone. Make sure you watch the first couple of minutes, so you understand who this guy is and what he used to do for a living. Had me going "WOW" by the end, finally somebody from the other team saying it like it is - awesome work.


Over the last few years with the stampede to wokery, unashamed identity politics, critical race theory and the likes of "White Fragility" being a must read in many organisations it's become far worse than the picture he painted in that film.
The rise of Twitter mobs and Cancellation has made the situation significantly worse than he was worried about, there's no prospect it will improve, we haven't come close to "peak woke" yet in my opinion.

It was required viewing when first aired. I think he's been bloody brave to put himself out there. A lot of people slag him off because of who he was.

I doubt that Channel Four would air it these days.

Indeed, I doubt any TV channel would air it, even though it's out of date and the situation has escalated markedly.
People aren't just terrified of being termed racist (or a phobe of some sort) they're scared of being cancelled, losing their livelihoods and even being charged with criminal behaviour.
The concluding statement in that film has come to pass in Scotland with the hate speech law and in the rest of the UK people have been prosecuted or at least intimidated by the Police for "hateful" speech.

We are rapidly heading for 1984's Rightthink and Rightspeak and Trevor Phillips is responsible in no small part for that. I respect some of what he's achieved and quite a lot of what he says, but he was incredibly naïve and missed that his work and that of TCB's governments put the current situation in place.
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
White Fragility
This little bit of nonsense.

I'm not 'fragile' because I'm white. I'm 'fragile' - if that's a euphemism for 'more than slightly peeved' because there's a lot in so-called white culture that is aspirational. That includes mutual respect for those of all ethnicities and genders. That mutual respect, incidentally, is lacking in many non-white cultures. The levels mutual respect which are assumed to be normal are actually greater in that so-called white culture.

We could talk about the subjugation of women, the antipathy between many non-white groups, and antipathy from some in non-white groups towards white people.

All of these seem to be untouchable, no matter how much greater in magnitude they may be than the perceived excesses of the majority white population in this country, and straight white males in particular.

I'm not fragile. I'm objecting to the inability of some to behave to common standards, and the effort of them and others to excuse that poor behaviour on cultural grounds.

But, go further: that same 'white fragility' and the associated standards pertain to many within the BAME and the immigrant white population in this country. The standards of law and order, and equality, in this country are not the sole preserve or ideal of the settled white population.

So, it's not really 'white fragility' is it? It's just shít-stirring.
 
Snipped for brevity. The police's, "very restrained" (some may say rather impotent) response to thousands of people breaking COVID-19 restrictions and pulling down statues, coupled with some police officers' pathetic kneeling gestures, certainly took the wind out of the sails of the marchers intent on trouble, but it also sent a message that anytime the troublemakers want to turn on the tap, the police won't confront them. Short-term gain, long-term folly?

Police Force to Police Farce
 

Tyk

LE
This little bit of nonsense.

I'm not 'fragile' because I'm white. I'm 'fragile' - if that's a euphemism for 'more than slightly peeved' because there's a lot in so-called white culture that is aspirational. That includes mutual respect for those of all ethnicities and genders. That mutual respect, incidentally, is lacking in many non-white cultures. The levels mutual respect which are assumed to be normal are actually greater in that so-called white culture.

We could talk about the subjugation of women, the antipathy between many non-white groups, and antipathy from some in non-white groups towards white people.

All of these seem to be untouchable, no matter how much greater in magnitude they may be than the perceived excesses of the majority white population in this country, and straight white males in particular.

I'm not fragile. I'm objecting to the inability of some to behave to common standards, and the effort of them and others to excuse that poor behaviour on cultural grounds.

But, go further: that same 'white fragility' and the associated standards pertain to many within the BAME and the immigrant white population in this country. The standards of law and order, and equality, in this country are not the sole preserve or ideal of the settled white population.

So, it's not really 'white fragility' is it? It's just shít-stirring.

I agree completely that the book title is crappy, unfortunately having read the book, the title is actually one of the better parts of the publication. The book by Robin DiAngelo is not what I'd call a page turner, at best it's a slog and it's effectively required reading if you're working for an increasing number of organisations.
It's an addled mess of pseudo scientific bollocks that basically concludes if you're born white (or white ish by appearance) you're guilty of original sin and should be publicly flagellated for your immutable racism as should your entire family past, present and future. It's dangerous bollocks and outright racist.
 

Sana

Old-Salt
This little bit of nonsense.

I'm not 'fragile' because I'm white. I'm 'fragile' - if that's a euphemism for 'more than slightly peeved' because there's a lot in so-called white culture that is aspirational. That includes mutual respect for those of all ethnicities and genders. That mutual respect, incidentally, is lacking in many non-white cultures. The levels mutual respect which are assumed to be normal are actually greater in that so-called white culture.

We could talk about the subjugation of women, the antipathy between many non-white groups, and antipathy from some in non-white groups towards white people.

All of these seem to be untouchable, no matter how much greater in magnitude they may be than the perceived excesses of the majority white population in this country, and straight white males in particular.

I'm not fragile. I'm objecting to the inability of some to behave to common standards, and the effort of them and others to excuse that poor behaviour on cultural grounds.

But, go further: that same 'white fragility' and the associated standards pertain to many within the BAME and the immigrant white population in this country. The standards of law and order, and equality, in this country are not the sole preserve or ideal of the settled white population.

So, it's not really 'white fragility' is it? It's just shít-stirring.

That's so true. The so-called white culture does indeed have more mutual respect than non-white culture. As a non-white myself I can attest to this.
 

colinmc400

Old-Salt
We are rapidly heading for 1984's Rightthink and Rightspeak and Trevor Phillips is responsible in no small part for that. I respect some of what he's achieved and quite a lot of what he says, but he was incredibly naïve and missed that his work and that of TCB's governments put the current situation in place.
I think what i liked most was he accepted he was absolutely a huge part of making the rules, but he was big enough to say its gone too far. Not sure if he went quite as far as saying they were wrong full stop, but it was a refreshing change from the current "we can shout louder than you, therefore we are right" kind of mentality.
 
I think what i liked most was he accepted he was absolutely a huge part of making the rules, but he was big enough to say its gone too far. Not sure if he went quite as far as saying they were wrong full stop, but it was a refreshing change from the current "we can shout louder than you, therefore we are right" kind of mentality.
Basically, he put his hand on the pendulum.
Some would not be happy until it swung fully the other way.
 

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