What now for western society?

D

Deleted 4482

Guest
Its been a pretty tumultuous past twelve months. Covid, BLM, the ever-burgeoning cancel-culture with cultural marxism at the very heart of it. Identity politics are now pretty much the norm-and nobody is safe. One common denominator is social media, where opinions are broadcast and spread like a contemporary cancer, often worn as a badge of honour in order to demonstrate allegiance to a given cause.

It depends on where on the overton scale of virtuous acceptibility those opinions fall though whether they can be openly broadcast. Western society has now reached a point where, if someone who ticks the correct boxes, and is somehow regarded as a sacred cow owing to having one of many protected characteristics- they are beyond criticism and, even those in the most upper echelons of our society are afraid to call out wrong-doings for what they are.

It seems to only affect western society - those nations we consider as being somewhat backward to us are still thriving, yet we handicap ourselves continually, be it on environmental issues, societal issues, immigration...the list goes on. At some point, it will reach a stage where it's untenable and people will live in fear of expressing their real thoughts, if they are deemed unfashionable. I have said it before -its almost as if western society is emulating the roman empire and will one day fall, all in the hope that, in several millenia historians will say of us: "Well they meant well..."
 
Pushing western liberal ideals on societies where that kind of thing just doesn't work. All you've done is show them western society is a soft touch and they're in your face to get their freebies.
 
D

Deleted 4482

Guest
Pushing western liberal ideals on societies where that kind of thing just doesn't work. All you've done is show them western society is a soft touch and they're in your face to get their freebies.
South Africa being a prime example. We accepted previous wrongdoings and allowed change to happen on the wronged peoples terms. The pedulum surely and swiftly swung the other way but- western society is at pains to either acknowledge it or speak out about it.
 
Only one small part of it. The hordes crossing the Med to get to the land of free stuff should be the real concern of the west. It's too late for SA and other places like that.

You've shown them exactly how to play to your sympathies and they're ruthless in their use of that against you.

Your culture is despised by most, but the irony is that they're happy to weaponise it to hurt you.
 

RedDinger

War Hero
It all has overtones of 1984. Except their isn't yet one Monolithic regime controlling it all. As you say, various social media platforms are used by vocal minority to impose their views, and threaten and intimidate anyone who opposes them. They are helped by the abject cowardice of the majority of politicians, press and industry leaders to question them. Even the most extreme, and frankly absurd, pronouncements are beyond criticism for some sections of society.
 

Scunner

Old-Salt
At some point, it will reach a stage where it's untenable and people will live in fear of expressing their real thoughts, if they are deemed unfashionable.

You don't think we are already there ?? I'm lucky in where I work, but if I was based in the office (renewable energy company) rather than here in the workshop, expressing my views on people, politics and the world today, would see me unemployed in a heartbeat.
 

Mbongwe

On ROPS
On ROPs
What now for the West? Rational thinking dictates we'd be best served by trying to resist identity politics and retain some sort of broadly homogenous identity (China, India and most countries outside the West have no problem retaining their identity) but a self-defeating, fifth-columnist large minority will no doubt try to subvert this.

Pulling back as much as we can from trying to save the rest of the world from themselves, and becoming as self-sufficient as we possibly can (less reliance on immigration to fill jobs, more industrial self-reliance) would also be good starting objectives.
 
Hopefully the incessant ranting, no-platforming and closing down of a different opinion will become unfashionable. The SWJ's were first heard, now they're ridiculed. The minority fringe groups (BLM) etc. will be questioned over their clout. At the moment it's still new, but the majority realise they're a bunch of cünts, it's just that the MSM haven't really caught on yet, or don'tr want to.

Like discussing immigration during Labour's reign, it took a Coalition Government, and people who weren't going to be shouted down as racists to challenge the mindset. It took the best part of a decade, but we got there in the end. It's lapsed now on the back of the BLM cocks , but we'll get back in there again, it just takes people to say No, and challenge the hysteria. Currently everyone's backing down, which is giving the cünts more and more confidence to extend their cüntery.

Be strong, don't accept it, persevere!
 

4(T)

LE
It all has overtones of 1984. Except their isn't yet one Monolithic regime controlling it all.


There might well be, actually.

PRC most certainly has a global propaganda machine orders of magnitude bigger than Russia's - and the Russian one is a full state effort.

I don't think its any coincidence that the internet - and through it, education, social commentary, MSM, and popular consciousness - is rammed full of anti-US and anti-UK themes, much of which takes the form of falsified or slanted historical anecdotes, or that UK - the liberal democratic bogeyman for oppressive regimes over centuries - attracts invective out of all proportion to its current weight in the world.

BLM? The race wars? Race and "colonialism" have been core PRC propaganda themes since the 1950s (at a time when the soviets were still dribbling on about workers collective rights and other obsolete pre-Bolshevik theses). The targeted attacks on anglo-saxon culture and the stoking of seditious racial hatreds are being driven from somewhere, and its not arising out of any sort of spontaneous or evidenced basis.

Whereas most historical civilisations have eventually slid into gradual decay and decline, the roll-back of western (ie substantially anglo-saxon) democratic hegemony appears to be accelerated by sustained external pressures - from state players that intend to return to a global order based on brute power and authoritarian control.
 
Pushing western liberal ideals on societies where that kind of thing just doesn't work. All you've done is show them western society is a soft touch and they're in your face to get their freebies.
As Milton Friedman put it: "you can have uncontrolled immigration, or you can have welfare, but you can't have both or you go bust"
 

Class 66

War Hero
Only one small part of it. The hordes crossing the Med to get to the land of free stuff should be the real concern of the west. It's too late for SA and other places like that.

You've shown them exactly how to play to your sympathies and they're ruthless in their use of that against you.

Your culture is despised by most, but the irony is that they're happy to weaponise it to hurt you.
And encouraged by the wealthy self loathing....Left.
 
Its been a pretty tumultuous past twelve months. Covid, BLM, the ever-burgeoning cancel-culture with cultural marxism at the very heart of it. Identity politics are now pretty much the norm-and nobody is safe. One common denominator is social media, where opinions are broadcast and spread like a contemporary cancer, often worn as a badge of honour in order to demonstrate allegiance to a given cause.

It depends on where on the overton scale of virtuous acceptibility those opinions fall though whether they can be openly broadcast. Western society has now reached a point where, if someone who ticks the correct boxes, and is somehow regarded as a sacred cow owing to having one of many protected characteristics- they are beyond criticism and, even those in the most upper echelons of our society are afraid to call out wrong-doings for what they are.

It seems to only affect western society - those nations we consider as being somewhat backward to us are still thriving, yet we handicap ourselves continually, be it on environmental issues, societal issues, immigration...the list goes on. At some point, it will reach a stage where it's untenable and people will live in fear of expressing their real thoughts, if they are deemed unfashionable. I have said it before -its almost as if western society is emulating the roman empire and will one day fall, all in the hope that, in several millenia historians will say of us: "Well they meant well..."

I will disagree.

The whole BLM UK thing. Notice how that rather swiftly dropped off the radar when normal people started taking to the streets. It's almost like someone realised that continuing to push at the same level would have unpredictable, and most like unpleasant consequences for them.
Take for example some of the White Lives Matter things. Note how they were pushed very loudly, but as soon as the spectre of court appeared everything seemed to step back. Consider if you will what court would do to such a case. First option WLM becomes deemed racist, there's now precedent... Which logically follows that BLM is also racist. Suddenly Sasha is now out of a job, and no longer racking in the merchandising funds, and whose going to employ her?
Also notice how after the counter protests, IE the EDL twats, and the normal people demo how everything stopped, and became low level wailing by the media.

I would venture that the people concerned realised that they had pushed hard enough to piss off the majority of the population, and that could very quickly become a loosing battle. Lets take it to Sasha's logical end point, causing a Class war combined with a Race war. The first hurdle is that the whites are much richer (or so she says) and much better armed. Some time ago I worked in a police Firearms Licencing unit, and some of the villages, if there's a serious neighbourhood disagreement could end up looking like Beirut. I don't think people quite realise exactly how many guns are in the countryside, and what's more the owners know how to use them. Anyone on the left who claims to want a class war for that reason is deranged. Tarquin the noodley armed placard waver whose read all of Marx's work arrives outside of Farmer John's farm to demand he surrenders his land to the people's committee. His farm that he's worked a large part of his life for, and he has several shotguns... what do you think is going to happen in that situation?

Equally you cite social media as a problem, is it though? Last I heared only 1/3rd of Britons had a Facebook account. That means 2/3rds don't. What I think you're seeing is the signal/noise ratio problem. With the Media amplifying the social media signal, mistakenly believing it's how the majority think, when in fact there's no way to easily access the majorities views.
 

Mbongwe

On ROPS
On ROPs
The whole BLM UK thing. Notice how that rather swiftly dropped off the radar when normal people started taking to the streets.
Snipped for brevity. The police's, "very restrained" (some may say rather impotent) response to thousands of people breaking COVID-19 restrictions and pulling down statues, coupled with some police officers' pathetic kneeling gestures, certainly took the wind out of the sails of the marchers intent on trouble, but it also sent a message that anytime the troublemakers want to turn on the tap, the police won't confront them. Short-term gain, long-term folly?
 

Cold_Collation

LE
Book Reviewer
Pendulum is right. That's right, not Right, but I do think we'll see reaction against the Left's rhetoric.

Labour is buggered at the moment. Starmer isn't pulling it back from Corbyn's lunacy because he's still playing to the Right-On crowd.

Boris? As I've said before, Brexit on its own would have been enough to contend - and, that was his preoccupation. But Brexit + pandemic + being very ill with Covid himself. Yeah, go on. What a year.

I contend that BLM could not have happened without the confluence of events we've seen. The Marxists saw a weak point, in that government is overstretched, and went for it. Kemi Badenoch has already stood up in the House and said that identity politics has no place in our institutions. That's a line in the sand. A deadline.

Look, if the progressive types were on such safe ground, they wouldn't be shítting themselves over Andrew Neil's new venture. Owen Jones is reduced to a pay-per-view channel on YouTube.

People are becoming very vociferous about being called 'racist'. Rightly bloody so. It's a form of control, principally from the Marxists. They (and not just BLM) are using colour as a mask for their true agenda. But, despite attempts on MSM to dominate the argument, people are now speaking a little more loudly. They're actually turning around and saying, "No, I'm not racist and unconscious/institutionalised racism/bias is, frankly, bollocks."
 
Remember that the "mainstream media" is motivated solely by profit, whether that is monetary through advertising etc. or through other benefits gained for the owners / shareholders of the organisations. Having events and styles of reporting which cause people to want to read the stuff produced by media companies is a self-licking lollipop of publicity.
 
There might well be, actually.

PRC most certainly has a global propaganda machine orders of magnitude bigger than Russia's - and the Russian one is a full state effort.

I don't think its any coincidence that the internet - and through it, education, social commentary, MSM, and popular consciousness - is rammed full of anti-US and anti-UK themes, much of which takes the form of falsified or slanted historical anecdotes, or that UK - the liberal democratic bogeyman for oppressive regimes over centuries - attracts invective out of all proportion to its current weight in the world.


Relevant and downloadable:

 
Equally you cite social media as a problem, is it though? Last I heared only 1/3rd of Britons had a Facebook account. That means 2/3rds don't. What I think you're seeing is the signal/noise ratio problem. With the Media amplifying the social media signal, mistakenly believing it's how the majority think, when in fact there's no way to easily access the majorities views.

Facebook used to be the go-to platform for being cool and informed, now it's not, well fore kids that is. The young still all have an account, but have one just because. It's now predominantly used by 30+ types.

My 21, 18 & 16 yr old kids all have FB accounts, but rarely use them
 
Facebook used to be the go-to platform for being cool and informed, now it's not, well fore kids that is. The young still all have an account, but have one just because. It's now predominantly used by 30+ types.

My 21, 18 & 16 yr old kids all have FB accounts, but rarely use them
Being in my mid-30's - not many of my acquaintances / friends use it too much any more now either.

The ones of my friends who do, are mainly self-avowed socialists / communists, or fairly far to the right of the spectrum. The (majority) of people whose political opinions seem to range from 'a bit tory' to 'a bit labour' via 'don't really care; they're all bellends' don't use it much.

I mainly go on to facebook now to poke people spouting anti-vaccination or pseudoscientific nonsense.

I hope Facebook withers & dies - great idea; good execution; not great side effects.
 
My concise appreciation of the situation is:
private-fraser.jpg
 

Bluenose2

Old-Salt
My current job (senior bod in a comms position at a very-well-known university) means that a big part of my role is dealing with exactly this sort of thing.

We are, to be blunt, held to ransom by wokists who demand our public support on a range of issues around diversity etc. Failure to do so results in the modern version of google-bombing - the destruction of our reputation online, mostly via social media.

The team I manage largely feel the same way about the issues, so there is a delicious stress between responsibility to provide balanced positions and drum-banging by employees are are often more woke than the Wokists. I am slowly exposing them to having to make real-world decisions with an ethical basis, and watching them squirm as their preconceptions/prejudices are challenged is quite a thing.

Case in point. My social media manager is somewhat militant Jewish, and somewhat militant Marxist. We had a complaint about some of our academics supporting an overtly left-wing, pro-Arab professor in another university. She really didn't know how to react - having to balance which aspects were most important to her - her professional responsibility to give a balanced response, her religious beliefs, or her political ones.

Simultaneously, i've had to ban political chat in our Microsoft Teams group - it was one-eyed, coercive, vitriolic and the opinion-presented-as-fact was puerile in the extreme. As you can imagine, it has gone down like a lead balloon, but others approached me privately (they were too frightened to do so publicly) to say thank you.

I've said this elsewhere, but the level of political understanding and tolerance of other people's views amongst a lot of 17-25 year olds is close to zero.

Multiply this by a) their ability to spout off on social media, and b) the natural and biological tendency to rebel against authority figures, means that they are able to make a disproportionate amount of noise about issues they have little life experience of.

There's a great line in the Tracey Ullman sketch about the Woke Support Group where she says something akin to "as you get older you become more Conservative anyway".

That's our best and most likely hope - that a lot of those making the noise actually (literally) grow up and grow out of it.

In the meantime, the majority of us in the real world have to crack on making a living, getting on with neighbours of all colours and benefiting from having the rough edges and a lot of bullshit knocked out of us by the things we've done, places we've been and people we've met.
 

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