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What now for the EU ?

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
"The EU challenged Britain to decide what future it wants for itself outside the bloc’s single market and customs union after 47 years as a member of the union."
That is a fair question for the EU to ask, after all they have been responsible for how we operated for the past few decades. The trouble is, when the UK tells them what we are looking for they get the heebee jeebees and won't accept it!

The EU need to look to themselves and their multitudinous problems rather than try to dictate to the UK.
 
"The EU challenged Britain to decide what future it wants for itself outside the bloc’s single market and customs union after 47 years as a member of the union."
That is a fair question for the EU to ask, after all they have been responsible for how we operated for the past few decades. The trouble is, when the UK tells them what we are looking for they get the heebee jeebees and won't accept it!

The EU need to look to themselves and their multitudinous problems rather than try to dictate to the UK.
Hop off you frogs worked back in the day, maybe a f8ck off you cnuts might be more appropriate in these testing times.

Friday, wine from Chile-in a big box , none of that mincing continental bottle malarkey.
 

StormsInAfrica

War Hero
I fail to see what concern this is of the EU? How the UK goes forward is the choice of the UK, the path is steered by who ever the country elects, the choices they put forward and if the majority want those choices. What concern is it of the EU.

The EU challenged Britain to decide what future it wants for itself outside the bloc’s single market and customs union after 47 years as a member of the union.

“The real question is - which political, economic, social project do they want for their own future?” European Council President Charles Michel said. “And this is a question for the British government and for the British people.”



“The real question is - which political, economic, social project do they want for their own future?” European Council President Charles Michel said. “And this is a question for the British government and for the British people.”

That will be decided at future British elections by the British electorate.

Akin to asking 'whatever will you ever do without us'?

21st century Dauphins.
 
My own view is that it is better for all concerned to reach some sort of agreement, but not at any price and not on the basis of subjugation.
I think that a deal thrashed out from the starting point of both parties having a WTO relationship with each other can only be beneficial. A clean slate if you like.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk
 

Oyibo

LE
Hold yer horses everyone. The Times of London (online) has the headline on its front page of

France derails Brexit talks with last-minute demands

Yet strangely, the article has the headline

Britain accuses Emmanuel Macron of Brexit ambush​



The first and the last part of the article are predictably about fishing, but the middle part is interesting:

A senior European source said: “This is Macron playing De Gaulle. It is very domestic in focus but has all the diplomatic subtlety of a bull in a china shop. It could smash it all up.”

Mr Barnier is travelling back to Brussels today. Tomorrow he will discuss the deal with European ambassadors.

It is understood that the fresh demands were unexpectedly tabled at a meeting with Lord Frost on Thursday.

Mr Barnier said the EU wanted powers to impose punitive tariffs on British exports if Britain diverged from EU environmental and labour laws. He is also understood to have demanded an opt-out for the European Commission on state aid rules, which would allow Brussels to support industries across the bloc as part of its Covid recovery plan. This could put Britain at a disadvantage to France, Spain or Italy, countries that are expected to benefit from the lion’s share of the EU fund.

One British official said the new demands were “completely unrealistic”.

In the parlance of diplomatic language the reference in Michel Barnier’s and Lord Frost’s statement last night to “significant divergences” can be translated as a serious row (Oliver Wright writes). There was no disguising No 10’s anger at the three new demands tabled by the EU.

The first was a variation on a theme — that the UK must be compelled to abide by EU environmental or social rules.

The second is new: that the European Commission is exempt from state aid provisions. This would let the bloc channel money into EU industries, for example for coronavirus recovery plans, while the UK could not.
 

ACAB

LE
Hold yer horses everyone. The Times of London (online) has the headline on its front page of

France derails Brexit talks with last-minute demands

Yet strangely, the article has the headline

Britain accuses Emmanuel Macron of Brexit ambush​



The first and the last part of the article are predictably about fishing, but the middle part is interesting:

Sung to the tune of a well known Xmas Carole.......

Frosty the Noman...............
 
Hold yer horses everyone. The Times of London (online) has the headline on its front page of

France derails Brexit talks with last-minute demands

Yet strangely, the article has the headline

Britain accuses Emmanuel Macron of Brexit ambush​



The first and the last part of the article are predictably about fishing, but the middle part is interesting:
This has been the problem with the EU all along. They continually move the goalposts and have no intention of negotiating with transparency or honesty or in good faith. One of the biggest stumbling blocks is it not wanting the UK to provide state aid to its businesses and industries - i.e. dictating to the UK what it can and cannot do even as an independent sovereign nation - yet it tries to force through the same thing for itself right at the very last. This is typical of the EU and entirely predictable. It's what the EU does, we've seen it time and again. Totally untrustworthy.

The same goes with the EU's environmental and labour laws. The UK must obey what the EU dictates regarding those. The EU just cannot give up its control over the UK. The French want to treat the UK's territorial waters as if they belong to France. They tried to make us accept the ECJ having supremacy over UK courts when it came to legal disputes. It's these sorts of things that made so many leavers vote the way they did and the EU still doesn't get it.

If the UK capitulates for the sake of a trade deal then I foresee that there will be something nasty tucked away in the small print waiting to ambush us and tying us in all sorts of legal knots for years, if not decades, and no doubt at vast expense. If nothing is agreed until everything is agreed then I hope nothing is agreed.

The only way we can stop the EU from screwing us over is for us to leave with no deal, on WTO terms. EU law has already been enshrined in UK law but without the noose of a free trade deal we can in future cherry-pick the useful laws and repeal the ones we don't want without breaching some hidden small print that prevents us from doing so. From WTO rules we can negotiate all sorts of deals but from a base-line position of equal terms with few or no hidden surprises from previous agreements.

I really hope Boris has the nads to hold out and stick two fingers up to the EU and particularly the French.

Roll on December 31st and WTO.
 
This has been the problem with the EU all along. They continually move the goalposts and have no intention of negotiating with transparency or honesty or in good faith. One of the biggest stumbling blocks is it not wanting the UK to provide state aid to its businesses and industries - i.e. dictating to the UK what it can and cannot do even as an independent sovereign nation - yet it tries to force through the same thing for itself right at the very last. This is typical of the EU and entirely predictable. It's what the EU does, we've seen it time and again. Totally untrustworthy.

The same goes with the EU's environmental and labour laws. The UK must obey what the EU dictates regarding those. The EU just cannot give up its control over the UK. The French want to treat the UK's territorial waters as if they belong to France. They tried to make us accept the ECJ having supremacy over UK courts when it came to legal disputes. It's these sorts of things that made so many leavers vote the way they did and the EU still doesn't get it.

If the UK capitulates for the sake of a trade deal then I foresee that there will be something nasty tucked away in the small print waiting to ambush us and tying us in all sorts of legal knots for years, if not decades, and no doubt at vast expense. If nothing is agreed until everything is agreed then I hope nothing is agreed.

The only way we can stop the EU from screwing us over is for us to leave with no deal, on WTO terms. EU law has already been enshrined in UK law but without the noose of a free trade deal we can in future cherry-pick the useful laws and repeal the ones we don't want without breaching some hidden small print that prevents us from doing so. From WTO rules we can negotiate all sorts of deals but from a base-line position of equal terms with few or no hidden surprises from previous agreements.

I really hope Boris has the nads to hold out and stick two fingers up to the EU and particularly the French.

Roll on December 31st and WTO.

A nail, head, hammer comment. Very well put.

I would now challenge any of the EU sycophants to come forward and say that the EU have been negotiating in good faith. An accusation that was levelled at the UK by non other than the EU themselves.

Hoof them. WTO from the 1st Jan. They can then parade their ARRSES at Downing Street when they accept the UK as a Sovereign Nation and are ready to negotiate in good faith.
 
Until it all goes wrong. In the early 2000s Schlumberger wives and kids had to jump off a 3-story total building to escape the mobs (legs broken, and so on). The airport road was barricaded etc, etc, and that was when the French still had an Army base near the airport.

In 2009 similar, but slightly less violent events occurred. 2016, same-same.

Not meaning to denigrate your experiences, but much of my work has been concerned with the less pleasant side of society. Gabon is not the land of milk and honey

And the Bongo family are a bit *ahem* frisky in their dealings.
 

Oyibo

LE
And the Bongo family are a bit *ahem* frisky in their dealings.

I give you the President of Gabon:

1607152207337.png
 
That will be decided at future British elections by the British electorate.

Akin to asking 'whatever will you ever do without us'?

21st century Dauphins.

That worked out well the first time round:

DAUPHIN

For the Dauphin,
I stand here for him: what to him from England?

EXETER

Scorn and defiance; slight regard, contempt,
And any thing that may not misbecome
The mighty sender, doth he prize you at.
Thus says my king; an' if your father's highness
Do not, in grant of all demands at large,
Sweeten the bitter mock you sent his majesty,
He'll call you to so hot an answer of it,
That caves and womby vaultages of France
Shall chide your trespass and return your mock
In second accent of his ordnance.

DAUPHIN

Say, if my father render fair return,
It is against my will; for I desire
Nothing but odds with England: to that end,
As matching to his youth and vanity,
I did present him with the Paris balls.

EXETER

He'll make your Paris Louvre shake for it,
Were it the mistress-court of mighty Europe:
And, be assured, you'll find a difference,
As we his subjects have in wonder found,
Between the promise of his greener days
And these he masters now: now he weighs time
Even to the utmost grain: that you shall read
In your own losses, if he stay in France.
 
The EU challenged Britain to decide what future it wants for itself outside the bloc’s single market and customs union after 47 years as a member of the union.

“The real question is - which political, economic, social project do they want for their own future?” European Council President Charles Michel said. “And this is a question for the British government and for the British people.”
Talk about stating the bleeding obvious! Yes Britain's future is for Britain to decide, thank you.
 
Talk about stating the bleeding obvious! Yes Britain's future is for Britain to decide, thank you.
"Social Projekt"???
I thought we were joining a common market to benefit trade.
Were the voting public deceived?
Could that be the reason that the politicians that joined us up to a social projekt were the most vocal and were shiitting bricks that their deceit would be laid bare?
 
"Social Projekt"???
I thought we were joining a common market to benefit trade.
Were the voting public deceived?
Could that be the reason that the politicians that joined us up to a social projekt were the most vocal and were shiitting bricks that their deceit would be laid bare?
‘Social Project’ does have a certain ring to it, though, doesn’t it!
Historians of Europe in the 30s through the Cold War may like to comment.
 
‘Social Project’ does have a certain ring to it, though, doesn’t it!
Historians of Europe in the 30s through the Cold War may like to comment.
Sozialprojekten looks a lot more scary (and is probably more accurate).
 

Auld-Yin

ADC
Kit Reviewer
Book Reviewer
Reviews Editor
A nail, head, hammer comment. Very well put.

I would now challenge any of the EU sycophants to come forward and say that the EU have been negotiating in good faith. An accusation that was levelled at the UK by non other than the EU themselves.

Hoof them. WTO from the 1st Jan. They can then parade their ARRSES at Downing Street when they accept the UK as a Sovereign Nation and are ready to negotiate in good faith.
No. They can present their arrses at the doors of the Foreign Office, just like any other foreign (and hostile) country (even though they are not a country, you get my drift).
 
Stolen from the BBC:

While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.
So far, more than 20 of these existing deals, covering 50 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. There are still some talks ongoing, but many of the most important agreements have been done.


Mildly encouraging, RoW wise; this also shows the Project Fear line of "we wont get equivalence with RoW as the EU" as somewhat, er, well, Project Fear.

ETA, I really hope Boris does not fold now.
 
Stolen from the BBC:

While it was an EU member, the UK was automatically part of around 40 trade deals which the EU had with more than 70 countries. In 2018, these deals represented about 11% of total UK trade.
So far, more than 20 of these existing deals, covering 50 countries or territories, have been rolled over and will start on 1 January 2021. There are still some talks ongoing, but many of the most important agreements have been done.


Mildly encouraging, RoW wise; this also shows the Project Fear line of "we wont get equivalence with RoW as the EU" as somewhat, er, well, Project Fear.

ETA, I really hope Boris does not fold now.
It’s what we’ve been saying all along.
The Lurg has kept the media’s eyes off all that, leaving Truss and her gang to get on with their jobs in relative peace.
 
The EUropeons regard life outside the comfort blankie of the EU as an absurd flat earth notion, the whole EU project really has achieved the status of a secular religion.

the average EUropeon simply can’t fathom why Britain would want to leave this Divine CE regulated Heaven on Earth, but there again, the average EUropeon simply can’t fathom the symbolism of the chorus of Britain’s de facto National Anthem....

”Rule, Britannia! Britannia, rule the waves!
Britons never, never, never shall be slaves.
 
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