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What now for the EU ?

I've read that the UK's economy totals that of the bottom 18 EU countries.

When we left, from an economic point of view, the EU didn't lose 1 country, it's like they lost 18 countries, leaving them with 9.

No wonder Guy Verhofstatd spent 24th June 2016 crying.
He should have spent it studying the effect of a blade on various arteries. Arm, thigh, neck etc.

the ugly, furrin chod.
 
The origins of the EU go a lot further back than 1920, more like 13.7 billion years, anything before that is debateable. Then leaping forward to abiogenesis on Earth...yes, another subject for research. Perhaps intellectual origins can be identified in a Darwinian way...but for a few astounding facts. We are the product of a biochemical chain reaction over which we have no control...that means 'free will' is impossible. Not that intellectual origins are completely deterministic, quantum fluctuation have had some effect on the pin ball machine and flippers. Stay with me here mate... The EU actually emerged from nothing and is now governed by the uncertainty principle, just like everything else. We can't even observe the organisation without invoking many worlds, until we do look the EU is in a superposition, agreed?

How much did you have to drink before you wrote that? :drunken:
 

WightMivvi

War Hero
The origins of the EU go a lot further back than 1920, more like 13.7 billion years, anything before that is debateable. Then leaping forward to abiogenesis on Earth...yes, another subject for research. Perhaps intellectual origins can be identified in a Darwinian way...but for a few astounding facts. We are the product of a biochemical chain reaction over which we have no control...that means 'free will' is impossible. Not that intellectual origins are completely deterministic, quantum fluctuation have had some effect on the pin ball machine and flippers. Stay with me here mate... The EU actually emerged from nothing and is now governed by the uncertainty principle, just like everything else. We can't even observe the organisation without invoking many worlds, until we do look the EU is in a superposition, agreed?

LOL. That’s a long way of you saying “no, I don’t understand the intellectual origins of the EU”. But how can you understand the future of the EU if you don’t understand what drives it?

(BTW, it’s off topic, so I’ll keep it short, but there is emerging evidence that our universe might be the creation of an earlier universe, so your whole reply is probably wrong.)
 
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In order for the EU to work national character in every major European country must be destroyed and a greater uniting identity put in its place. That can usually only be done by conquest with a dominant language, culture, military and, dare I say, religion.

The only thing out of that list which unites Europe is Christendom, because with that belief Europeans can point out where Europe ends and what Europe is not - Islamic Turkey.

Napoleon tried it, Hitler tried it and quite a few others. The only moderately successful ones were the Romans and they had everything on the list.
I think that after 40 years of expansion the EU is a success, trading blocs are a good thing. Religions are a bad thing and the biggest threat to globalism. If nothing else the EU have shown how national identities can be unified by trade. Polish backward thinking will probably be crushed by Polish people and we will move on. Just a matter of education, education and education.
 
I think that after 40 years of expansion the EU is a success, trading blocs are a good thing. Religions are a bad thing and the biggest threat to globalism. If nothing else the EU have shown how national identities can be unified by trade. Polish backward thinking will probably be crushed by Polish people and we will move on. Just a matter of education, education and education.

Any education that you might have had was clearly wasted on you.
 
I’ll happily agree that the UK system of government is far from prefect, but it has a few advantages. For example, we have bloodless revolutions every few years. Look at 2016: a Prime Minister felt compelled to leave office, the whole country’s political elite were effectively disenfranchised, and the country’s future direction and allegiances were changed.
It was a revolution of one set of elites against another and, it isn't over yet. Revolutions have a habit of eating their own children. Especially when those making grand claims get found out.
The resulting counter-revolution was also then squished bloodlessly.
It still hasn't happened as the revolution isn't complete.
Whether you agree with the outcome or not, it’s a pretty impressive achievement.
I've never said it wasn't a tremendous achievement but, it was about campaigning first and foremost. They still can't deliver on much other than leaving.

Given all these huge advantages, if their campaign had been of equal effectiveness to Vote Leave then, all else remaining equal, Cameron would almost certainly (>95% likely) have won.
The UK system of government is, at its heart, about managing potential anarchy. The EU system is based on ensuring continuity.

One had a relief valve. The other doesn’t.
I agree about potential anarchy but disagree about the EU, it's more about europe finding its place in the world. Still a long way to go there, it could crash and burn, go federal or stay roughly as it is.
 
LOL. That’s a long way of you saying “no, I don’t understand the intellectual origins of the EU”. But how can you understand the future of the EU if you don’t understand where drives it?

(BTW, it’s off topic, so I’ll keep it short, but there is emerging evidence that our universe might be the creation of an earlier universe, so your whole reply is probably wrong.)
Looking at history as a guide to the future is not without flaws... Nothing from the 1920s worries me at all. My knowledge of the EU today is all that matters. Everything else is imagination fuelled by fear.

An earlier universe is just a recursion not a beginning. Look up Something from Nothing - Krauss.
 
Sound familiar?

“European Confederation”

“common destiny of European peoples”

”harmonisation of European currencies”

”to ensure that wars never break out among them”

“trade based on the principle of European preference vis-à-vis non-European countries”.


lifted from
Europaische Wirtschafts Gemeinschaf
(European Economic Community)

Professor Walter Funk
Reich Economics Minister & President of the Reichsbank.
 

HCL

LE
All well and good but you then follow it up with argument by assertion.

You may want to compare the EU with the current UK governance if you're talking about undemocratic and unconstitutional actions. You can add attacks on the institutions of democracy to that as well, namely the judiciary.

Yet again, more bovine effluent from the king of Twatter.

The judiciary have nothing to do with democracy in this country. They form no part of the " democracy" structure of the U.K.. And if you had spent a nano second thinking about it for yourself, you would have realised that judges are appointed (nominally independent) and in no way represent any democratic institution in the land; if anything, they represent the opposite of any democrat.

It really is going to be a toss up whether you or B0ll0cksB0ll0cks get my SPOTY 2020 vote, though on this showing you're in front by a nose.

Rightho. then. Do carry on, there's a good chap. Your well deserved gong may await you.
 

WightMivvi

War Hero
Looking at history as a guide to the future is not without flaws... Nothing from the 1920s worries me at all. My knowledge of the EU today is all that matters. Everything else is imagination fuelled by fear.
It doesn’t worry me either - we’re no longer part of the EU. ;)

However, it’s always useful to know the intellectual pressures that caused a bunch of people to come together and form a political movement. It forms an emotional core that drives the organisation on.

Personally, as a catholic, I suspect the intellectual roots of the EU lies in the catholic church’s [historical] desire to recreate the Western Roman Empire.

A powerful and self-serving senator class with a God-given right to grow rich off the backs of the plebs...
 
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Not enough...that was just a sawn off version of existence. You can use it to kickstart that lump of grey matter between your ears. FOC.

Nothing wrong with my brain Higgsy. An old teacher of mine (now sadly deceased) said the purpose of a good education is to know when someone else is talking bollocks. Unfortunately for you, I had a good education. FoC.
 

WightMivvi

War Hero
It was a revolution of one set of elites against another and, it isn't over yet. Revolutions have a habit of eating their own children. Especially when those making grand claims get found out.

It still hasn't happened as the revolution isn't complete.

I've never said it wasn't a tremendous achievement but, it was about campaigning first and foremost. They still can't deliver on much other than leaving.

Given all these huge advantages, if their campaign had been of equal effectiveness to Vote Leave then, all else remaining equal, Cameron would almost certainly (>95% likely) have won.

I agree about potential anarchy but disagree about the EU, it's more about europe finding its place in the world. Still a long way to go there, it could crash and burn, go federal or stay roughly as it is.
I’ll mostly agree. I’ll strongly agree with the bit about the campaign: Leave only won because the Remain campaign was especially useless.

The problem Remain had (and which the EU needs to solve if it is to thrive) is that it’s very hard to define the benefits of membership compared to the cost.

For example, whilst lower wages is a sound business benefit of membership, it doesn’t exactly garner popular support.
 
Yet again, more bovine effluent from the king of Twatter.

The judiciary have nothing to do with democracy in this country. They form no part of the " democracy" structure of the U.K.. And if you had spent a nano second thinking about it for yourself, you would have realised that judges are appointed (nominally independent) and in no way represent any democratic institution in the land; if anything, they represent the opposite of any democrat.

It really is going to be a toss up whether you or B0ll0cksB0ll0cks get my SPOTY 2020 vote, though on this showing you're in front by a nose.

Rightho. then. Do carry on, there's a good chap. Your well deserved gong may await you.
You're getting all verbose again, give away. With laws being part of our democratic structure the judiciary is part of that structure.

In 2005 Parliament passed the Constitutional Reform Act which, for the first time in constitutional history, provided for the separation of the Appellate Committee (supreme court) from the legislature (Parliament) and the executive (Government).

Supremecourt
 
I’ll mostly agree. I’ll strongly agree with the bit about the campaign: Leave only won because the Remain campaign was especially useless.

The problem Remain had (and which the EU needs to solve if it is to thrive) is that it’s very hard to define the benefits of membership compared to the cost.

For example, whilst lower wages is a sound business benefit of membership, it doesn’t exactly garner popular support.
Of course, lower wages was one of their main ad points and Remain could never argue against that really.
 
You don't read much...do you even have a radio or telly?
As I said before. I am a simple country bumpkin. They didn't teach us writing or even reading. But we had to collect potato beetles. As it is still a very rural region there isn't any electricity or such new fangled thingies like Telly, Computers or hot water or a water tap at all.
 
You appear confused and are making assertions absent evidence again. Have I claimed to be an expert anywhere?

If you're too lazy to address each point I've made I can't help you.
In short words, you can't and you just were inclined to wiggle your cock a bit around. And what "points" did you apart from "Argument by assertion" made? Name horse and rider and don't mumble around. What "actions" did you mean, what "attacks" on the judiciary.
 

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